alder24

9 hours ago, RefusesToElaborate said:

Hey, I want to point out something awkward and annoying.

The combination of two shardic intents may be up to the shardbearers interpretation.

31 minutes ago, UltimateArchivist said:

I'm not entirely sure that Vessels can adjust the Intents of an entire Shard like that. In the past, all we've seen is the Vessel becoming adjusted to the Shard's Intent. It is a good thought, but I believe that seeing as it has never yet happened in-world, it cannot be confirmed. If someone does not match a Shard's Intent, they typically cannot control it very well. (For instance, Kelsier controlling Preservation.)

Yes, a Vessel can influence the intent of a Shard and even change it to some extent. Different interpretations might create slightly different Shards, so different people would Ascend to different Shards. That's what Rayse tried to do with Odium, changing it into Passion. A Vessel filters how Shard's intent is expressed.

12 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

So my theory is that Ambition was splintered in the depths of space instead of on a planet like others. Which is how this 'Echo' will be part of the plot, since I doubt that the protagonists will be paying a visit to Threnody.

We already knew that the fight between Odium, Mercy and Ambition happened not on the planet Threnody, but in space, after which she fled. From this alone we can speculate with high certainty that she was Splintered not on any planet, but in the void of space, far away from any system and planet. AU Threnodite system:

Quote

The direct clash between two Shards of Adonalsium had a profound effect on the planets of this system. Though the actual battle took place in the vast space between planets—and though the true contest happened mostly in other Realms—the ripples of destruction and change washed through the system

12 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Now this will be interesting to contemplate because I have no idea what would happen if a Shard was Splintered in space away from any System or world to Invest in, would the Investiture just stay stuck in the Spiritual Realm? Would it stay together or drift apart? Would it have some effect on the Physical Realm like creating a star or some other type of weirdness? Would the Splinters not be bound by any world like most others would be?

Probably the same thing that would happen to any Splintered Shard - it would start doing weird things. In the space where there is nothing around, it might start leaking as physical investiture, some gaseous nebula of raw investiture, maybe even red in coloration (wink wink). It would probably expand the Cognitive region of this part of space. Despite the fact that there is almost nothing in PR, you would step into a vast expansion of Cognitive Realm just because there is a lot of pressure from investiture of a Splintered Shard, leaking through and messing with space time of that region. It might become violent like Dor - raw power is dangerous - it might become self-aware etc. Basically everything we know about Splintered investiture of a Shard still stands in the vacuum of space, but this will certainly cause some weirdness.

Brandon also said that with Ambition something similar happened to pushing investiture into CR. So maybe after Ambition fled Threnody, she was unbound from this system, Odium Splintered her and partially pushed her investiture into CR, but because it wasn't bound to any system it just spread all across interplanetary space of CR, creating the Emberdark? That's a bit of a stretch in my opinion, but who knows. 

13 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Could Odium have intentionally Splintered Ambition off-world to make sure no one could take up the Shard and Ascend? It makes sense, he could have learned from killing Devotion and Dominion and have tried a different method.

Possible. He did learn and try something different.

12 hours ago, The Stick said:

Wasn't Ambition the first one Splintered. If Ambition truly was Splintered in space, clearly Odium didn't like the result if he felt the need to try something new on Devotion and Dominion.

Ambition was killed after Devotion and Dominion:

3 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

... I still don't get it. It's vague and the army of Mistings were easily more fragile than creating an army of Mistborn. Plus, the Mists already Snapped people into regular Mistings, so at least that bunch could've been Mistborn while the rest were atium Mistings. But I guess that's why it was a 'fragile distant maybe." I guess Shards make plans completely different than us mortals. 

More fragile or more concealed? Ruin didn't care about Mist-Snapped until Elend discovered that they are all Allomancers - only then Ruin ordered his Koloss to attack Fadrex to wipe them out. But that was just before Vin's Ascension, if that were to happen earlier, if there were Mistborn among those Mist-Snapped, all would have realized what's going on much earlier, Ruin would have kill them all much earlier as well and nobody would be able to prevent 300,000 Koloss from killing all those inexperienced Mistborn and other Allomancers. All of those electrum Misting would have been killed long before they would get a chance to ingest Atium. 

And once again, per WoB it takes considerably more power to snap people into Mistborn - more than what it takes to snap them into 15 types of Mistsings. It's simply too much to ask from Mists, who had to work autonomously on their own, to snap Mistborn into existence. Then there would be no 16, as now you have only 2 types of snapped - Mistborn and electrum Mistings.

3 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Well... this is awkward. But tbf it’s a bit fuzzy since it was long before we knew of Kelsier’s time as Preservation. There might be discrepancies between how Vin learned of the plan VS how modern Brandon might write for a new Vessel. If modern Sando wrote Vin's Ascension, he would've wrote out that Vin learned Leras' plan for atium Mistings the moment she saw/learned these things - Rashek's storage caverns and strategies to hide atium, his use of the Well, Ruin's power hidden in atium, and the Pits of Hathsin themselves.

Remember that modern Brandon wrote out that Kelsier - the very unfitting Vessel - learned Leras' plan the moment Ruin uttered the word "atium." Kelsier, who wasn't even trying to delve into the "atium" thing unlike Vin

Remember, the knowledge of the Shard comes into a new Vessel gradually, not all at once. It takes some time for a Vessel to comprehend what's going on, even though their mind is greatly expanded. Shards aren't omniscient. Vin was Preservation's Vessel for less than a day, Kelsier for much longer. Moreover Vin had no idea there was any plan set up by Preservation at all, she didn't know she can look for something like that (and conscious searching is what makes Vessels learn things Shards know), while Kelsier knew there was some plan - Leras was constantly repeating that, he even saw glimpses of it when Leras showed him the future. Vin was far more focused on what's here and now and how to prevent imminent destruction. While she figured out Ruin was incomplete as well, she didn't know that's part of the plan, as she didn't know there was any plan. She hadn't been Preservation's Vessel for long enough to figure stuff out and comprehend the knowledge Shard possessed, or maybe even to comprehend the future sight itself. She was too fresh for it, too inexperienced and overwhelmed, while also being under constant pressure from Ruin. When Kelsier Ascended Ruin mostly ignored that, he was still focused on Vin the most so Kelsier had more freedom than Vin had as after Vin's Ascension Ruin stopped focusing on her only when he discovered where Atium is. 

This is evident from HoA epigraphs, where Sazed often says that he doesn't yet know something, or writes about what he believes or speculates to be the truth, not what he knows when he should have known. Plus we have WoBs that talk about it.

Quote

ch 3:

In some ways, having such power was too overwhelming, I think. This was a power that would take millennia to understand.

ch 39:

Even now, I can barely grasp the scope of all this. [...]
Adonalsium. Who, or what, it was, I do not yet know.

ch 57: 

There is more to this. Much more that even I do not yet comprehend.

Epilogue:

There is much more to this mystery. Perhaps I will tease it out eventually, as my mind grows more and more accustomed to its expanded nature. Perhaps I will determine why I was able to take the powers myself.

4 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Leras' ultimate goal - likely his interpretation of Preservation - was not to maintain the status quo. It was to protect Scadrial. If he wanted to maintain the status quo, Scadrial wouldn't have reached early industrial tech before Rashek's Ascension.

Yes, but that was before Ruin's imprisonment, when he made all those predictions. When he gave up his mind he was unable to perceive his plan and he was just focused on keeping the status quo (the only status quo that mattered to Leras was to keep Ruin imprisoned, the rest was irrelevant) because he didn't know where it would end. He no longer knew what the plan was, he was just a shadow of his mind. And that's why every action Leras did in SH weren't done to fulfill his end plan, they were done in the blink of a moment, to serve what's here and now, not knowing how it would affect his ultimate plan. 

By the time of Alendi or Vin, Leras was too far gone to know what the plan was, he didn't know it, he couldn't have acted on it. While Rashek might have been part of Preservation's plan before Ruin's imprisonment, this was irrelevant when dead Leras attempted to save the situation after learning Alendi would free Ruin - at that time he didn't chose Rashek because Leras knew he had a role to play in his grant plan, he chose him because he was the closest to prevent Ruin from escaping and only that mattered to Leras at that point, nothing else. 

4 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

I feel like you're ignoring a lot of things. The Plan wasn't to keep the prison active.

I'm not. I'm differentiating between Leras before Ruin's imprisonment, when he created his plan and acted on it, and after when his mind was gone and he was incapable of even knowing what his plan was, thus he would be unable to actually make any decision based on that plan. 

4 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

And how can there be the Hero without any circumstances for the Hero to arise? How can there be the Hero or atium Misting army if there's a tyrant more powerful than the Hero, or if atium isn't well known and sought out? I believe those were the roles of Rashek and his death, even if Fuzz didn't remember. 

If Rashek were to survive and Ascend again (just as Leras hoped for) nothing would happen for another 1024 years. Rashek was also the Hero, just like Vin was. That's why I believe the plan was more general, not specific. It was meant to be set in motion once Ruin is released, no matter when.

4 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

I also think Leras wanted Ruin to be released, eventually. How can the Hero of Ages use both Shards if the capabilities of one are still restricted?

He didn't want to but he knew that's inevitable no matter what he did.

4 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

And remember, Scadrians don't understand both Shards just because they're made of both Investitures. It's why Sazed is so notable among the Terris people. Vin till the moment of her death saw Ruin as nothing more than a force of death and destruction. Even Kelsier saw Ruin as this. 

Of course not everyone can do this, but everyone has the capacity to do it - that's a difference. It takes some work to understand those Shards and even Vin would be able to get that proper mindset and Ascend to Ruin, but it would take some work - just like Sazed had to work on his understanding of death. Everyone suffers in their lives, everyone loses someone important to them, grief is not something that's exclusive to Sazed. Everyone deals with it in a different way. Sazed's way of dealing with grief led him to understanding of Ruin's nature, but many could have ended up there as well. It’s hard to get to those Shardic levels, but it’s something that can still happen. 

5 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

No offense, but I think I would prefer to ignore those WoBs about Alendi. They're very early in Brandon's career and there's nothing in-story that suggests Leras was grooming Alendi to take the Shard. 

I do take offense! If we start to ignore and cherry pick WoBs because they don't fit our personal beliefs, then we're stepping into shaky grounds of confirmation bias. We should be shaping our opinions based on available data, not on our wishes. I see no reason to dismiss those WoBs, Brandon planned his work far in advance, he wrote all Mistborn books at the same time, back to back, before releasing any of them, that was done specifically to pre-plan it all. Brandon has not retconed this, nor did he said something contradictory later on, those WoBs stand true.

2 hours ago, Twinning said:

Just finished the second era and have been waiting since the end of the first book for the spoken of "effects" to come into play but haven't explicitly seen them.

This effect is called resonance. It's complicated, I'll talk more about it in a bit.

2 hours ago, Twinning said:

1. Synergies are specifically NOT the "effect" being spoken of.

Yup, that's just a cool thing Wax can do with conservation of momentum, not a resonance.

2 hours ago, Twinning said:

2. Savantaism is specifically NOT the effect.

That's true. It's worth mentioning that Wax was originally planned as a Savant, or near Savant of his powers, but Branond stepped back from this idea as there were no consequences of his Savanthood, nor was it related to the plot or his character arc.

The last part of this WoB is important here - Brandon isn't pleased how Wax's resonance turned out in the book and that's probably why it's complicated. 

2 hours ago, Twinning said:

2. Many hypotheses that Wax's bubble is the effect. However, this is simply "pushing out gently in all directions" which is only different in degree from Vin pushing strongly in all directions AFAICT. Also, his doppelgänger also creates a bubble despite having gained his abilities through hemalurgy,  and (I don't think) having the skimmer ferring ability that Wayne has.

And here is the problem why it's complicated - Wax's resonance was meant to be his steel bubble. But in BoM ch 7 we saw a regular Coinshot also using a steel bubble, so that can't be it. I think it goes back to the WoB above - Brandon wasn't happy about resonances in Era 2, so he made it just a normal ability. And that means we still don't know what Wax's resonance is. Wayne is even more problematic as Brandon never said what his one is.

Quote

The brute smiled. Doors still rattled around him—he was a Coinshot, obviously, Pushing out with a bubble like the one Wax used. It even pressed a little on the metalminds Wax wore on his upper arms, which were resistant to Allomancy

I don't remember Dumad using a steel bubble like Wax, he had duralumin and was pushing in all directions. Do you remember where he did that? I've tried to search for it but found nothing. Wax is more subtle and skilled with his bubble, he can exclude things from it, like his and Steris' personal items, it's a bit more advanced than just "push everything away." I don't think this alone is his resonance, it's just skill with the steel bubble Wax's learned, everyone should be able to do the same, it's just the matter of perspective and intent. If Dumad really did the steel bubble, then it can't be a resonance, as those aren't transferable via spikes and they also don't develop when your powers come from Hemalurgy, but also he didn't even have the power of F-iron. 

There is one good news however, resonances will be explored more in Era 3, so it's a part of Cosmere that is still ahead of us. 

2 hours ago, Twinning said:

Also interested in what people think the effect for Wayne might be but that seems even more nebulous. I have hypothesized he has some way to have a bubble that stores his things. On occasion he just drops his props once used but always seems to have whatever he needs and a potentially ludicrous, impossible amount of things in his pockets.  

No, that's definitely not something like this. It's not really possible. If I were to guess I would say he's just better at storing/tapping health faster or something like that. Many theorize that he had increased Fortune, that's why he's so lucky and it would make sense too.

15 hours ago, Heilven said:

I'm interested in how you came to this decision. Obviously we don't have much in the way of evidence either way, but it makes plenty of sense to me that you don't need to be an allomancer to burn metals.

Lerasium is burnable by anyone - Eland proved it - Lerasium alloys are as well, we know this from WoBs, they make you into Mistings. But why Atium alloys aren't burnable by anyone? You have to already be a Misting of the specific alloy part to burn it, in the case of Atium-electrum alloy, you need to be able to burn electrum to burn that alloy. This is one thing that suggests to me that god metals in general aren't burnable by literally anyone in Cosmere, but only to all kinds of Allomancers. And while in many WoBs Brandon just says "Atium should be burnable by anyone, it's a god metal," in this one (which is the main reason why I think this way), he talks about how he wishes he made Atium burnable specifically by all Allomancers and that it will work like this in movies. In my opinion this just makes more sense and it's more elegant. Plus all WoBs ask what would happen if a Mistborn were to burn a different god metals and it's always about Allomancers, not a normal person - but that's also how the questions were phrased, it's not an obvious clue. I really wish Brandon would clarify who are those "anyone" that can burn god metals. 

15 hours ago, Heilven said:

In addition, I can't think of any mechanical reason why burning lerasium should be any different. You don't have allomancy before you burn it, it would be odd for it to behave differently than others in this case. 

It's Preservation's god metal, it's a gift that grants you strength and preserves your soul - for the same reason Endowment grants Breaths with no strings attached. It's the nature of those specific Shards. I expect Edglium to work like Lerasium as well - burnable by anyone in Cosmere. giving you a side-effect, but the main effect of those god metals is reachable only by Allomancers (from WoB: "if another Allomancer were to burn it, it would do something else").

15 hours ago, Heilven said:

It's difficult to truly argue this, since it requires an understanding of shardmetals that we really don't have, and is cryptic at best. So this is me taking my best stab at it with the information we do have.

Yes, that's just my speculation. We know too little. I just threw it out there to point out such possibility exists.

15 hours ago, Heilven said:

I think there's a lot of textual evidence at this point to disprove this specific point. Elend and Wax both burned Lerasium unconsciously, with Wax not realizing at all. Elend even burned pewter completely unconsciously without knowing he was an allomancer, and I think it's likely Wax burned metals other than steel in TLM, perhaps even Atium.

And I will reference the WoB I've posted to this point - that's your body's intent in action, that's your body burning metals very slightly, rather than you. You’re burning it subconsciously only because your body has its own intent - to survive - and it will reach any available source of investiture to keep you alive. In Vin's case it was burning pewter, in Elend it reached for Lerasium, Wax reached for other metals etc. As the WoB I've posted said, your body knows what to do and it will slowly burn those metals, providing the intent, but that's not the same as your conscious intent to burn metals. 

All of those cases happened when they were in a dire need of this additional power. Vin was burning pewter when she was being beaten up, healing, or burning brass to avoid being beaten up, Elend burned Lerasium when he was dying, Wax burned pewter to survive Wayne's explosion, maybe iron to grab vials when falling to his death, maybe tin when he was desperately trying to look for a solution on the top of the tower etc. None of them just burned metals when walking down the street, or when nothing was happening, they all needed this power to survive, or avoid something bad happening to them - that's when their body's intent kicked in and burned metals for them. 

15 hours ago, Heilven said:

I certainly agree with you here as well. In addition, I think it's possible that they did try to burn trellium, succeeded, but found that what it did wasn't particularly useful. There are a lot of different permutations of that idea, maybe it is useful but just not nearly as useful as it's hemalurgic properties. Or maybe it had an effect, but they couldn't tell what the full extent was and figured it wasn't useful, like Vin and duralumin. There are definitely a lot of reasons why we may not have heard about it.

Yes, it's possible as well.

3 hours ago, therunner said:

Spoiler

It is possible that Scadrian could not burn Shardblade because it is living entity, so Identity would interfere. But Tanavastium that is not part of living entity could be fair game.

 

Yes, that's the reason why Shardblades can't be used. They're alive. New WoB on that:

20 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Maybe she wasn't just forming Connections with the Singers, what if she was trying to form Connections with everything on Roshar? Forming powerful enough Connections in some dangerous gambit to control all of Roshar and everyone on it, only for it to completely blow up in her face. I don't know how else she'd be able to destroy Roshar by just empowering the Singers.

Sealing her caused a 'wound' to Roshar, so maybe by the time that she was sealed Mishram had managed to become a literal part of Roshar through reckless abuse of Connection BS?

Yes, that might be it.

24 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Could this be Shardic interference? I'd be willing to bet that Cultivation had something to do with this.

I doubt any Shard was involved in it. Honor was raving and dying at this moment, Cultivation is a wild card, she seems to be avoiding direct interventions, hiding in the Valley, waiting for people to come to her instead. It's possible Melishi went to the Nightwatcher and met Cultivation, but on the other hand Cultivation might have seen actions of Mishram and Singers as a new growth and might not have wanted to cut it off, particularly if it could have wounded everything on Roshar - she sees the future, she should be able to see it coming, I doubt she would have wanted to contribute to that.

31 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

How would she not know? She should remember when Odium first arrived on Roshar - fighting with the humans against the singers. I think this hatred of humans is specifically stemming from her Connection to all the singers of the past. Since she is 'too little' she lost a large part of her original Identity by bonding so many people.

She was unmade, but we don't know when, she might be younger than Heralds or Fused. Unmaking destroyed all memories. If she was unmade after Fused were created, she might have known Odium only in his Singer form, as that's how he always appears in their eyes. 

34 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Personally I think that both Sja-anat and BAM will be thrilled with their new vessel. They are both Odius creatures at heart - their issues were with Rayse. Tarvanagian is seeming like a much more capable Odium.

Mishram might be but Sja-Anat wanted to be free and independent, be her own god, now she's under Taravangian's boot. He knows she betrayed Odium, working against him, he has reasons to unmake her again if he wishes. But he will do everything to force her back in line and prevent her from gaining freedom, he will keep her short on her leash.

37 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I bet you that Shallan draws BAM from her imprisonment in a very similar way to her drawing Pattern into reality in WOK. It will likely need to be a drawing on a scale we haven't seen before (in terms of grandeur).

That's a cool idea, sounds doable. 

15 hours ago, Crossen said:

My theory is that Kelek and co. used the oathgate in Rall Elorim to go to shadesmar and created a "rip" to the spiritual realm there and tossed Ba-Ado-Mishram inside. Possibly creating this rip was possible because Honor helped him in their last moments or that was the location he was dying which created a weakness in the fabric between realms. Could it be that the shadows in the cognitive realm act the way they do because of the "pull" to the spiritual realm?

Dow we have any idea in which direction the "sun" actually is on the horizon in the cognitive realm or the location where Honor died?

Suns are different for each planetary system - Kelsier saw the Scadrian sun disappearing as he walked towards Ire. That means each subastral has its own sun. SH ch 5-1:

Quote

He’d hoped to have the sun back once Ruin vanished from the sky, but after walking far enough out, he seemed to leave his world behind—and the sun with it. The sky here was nothing but empty blackness

We don't really know what the sun is, it might be related to SR, or not as Shardic essence can block the sun. The SR and the Beyond are two different things, we don't know and we will never know if the Beyond is real. 

10 hours ago, Crossen said:

After looking into it further it seems like the official map of the sea of souls suggests that the "sun" is in the direction of Rall Elorim.

I have no idea how you figure that out. Is it because there is a name "basin of the veiled sun?" It's just a name, it tells us nothing about where the sun is located in CR. This name might also mean that in that region the sun is so far away that clouds obstruct its light, which would mean that the sun is in the opposite direction from Rall Elorim, or something like that. 

10 hours ago, The Stick said:

If BAM is indeed locked in a heliodor, than I would posit that this also links her to the essence of Sinew. Oddly enough, this means that BAM would correspond to Ishar as a herald.

This is weird as Brandon has previously said that there is no Unmade corresponding to Bondsmiths. I wasn't expecting heliodor to be used for Unmades because of that.

10 hours ago, Experience said:

Could one of the heralds be a singer? Just had the thought and wasn't sure if we know or not if it's a possibility.

I wouldn't exclude this possibility, after all Venli remarks that Nale's scar on his face looks like Singer's pattern, from Nale's memory it looks like he was an enemy to Jezrien (whatever it means) before he asked him to join Heralds, so he might be in some way related to Singers, maybe he had mixed parents, or something like that? All Heralds maybe with the exception of Ash came from Ashyn, Ash might have been born on Roshar already, Brandon isn't sure. But from all we know, Nale wasn't present when BAM was imprisoned. 

RoW ch 77:

Quote

A figure darkened the doorway to the guard post. The bearded soldier looked up. Venli turned slowly, attuning Anxiety. The newcomer was an imposing figure with deep brown skin and a pale mark on his cheek, almost like a listener might have as part of their skin pattern.

RoW ch 47:

Quote

Flash.
Nale clasping hands with a bearded Alethi man, regal and wise. Dalinar knew this was Jezerezeh, though he couldn’t say how.
“I will take this charge,” Nale said softly. “With honor.”
“Do not consider it an honor,” Jezerezeh said. “A duty, yes, but not an honor.”
“I understand. Though I had not expected you would come to an enemy with this offer.”
“An enemy, yes,” Jezerezeh said. “But an enemy who was correct all along, making me the villain, not you. We will fix what we’ve broken. Ishar and I agreed. There is no person we would welcome more eagerly into this pact than you. You are the single most honorable man I have ever had the privilege of opposing.”
“I wish that were true,” Nale said. “But I will serve as best I can

4 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Also the confirmation, not a huge one but still, that Mishram hates humans. This pretty much solidifies that if she gets free she'll be going straight back to Odium, unless she realizes that there's a new Vessel and maybe starts a rebellion? Or maybe spending thousands of years locked inside a cramped little crystal will have given her a new perspective on life, maybe more appreciation for being free.

I suspect that BAM imprisonment was a necessity arising not just from the fact that she started a new Desolation, but that she overextended herself by Connecting to all Singers, which strained her soul and changed her and maybe drove her to insanity so Radiants had to react to help Roshar, not by just stopping the Desolation, but by stopping her specifically. I think there are clues for that, the way Ulim talked about her in RoW to Venli, or the Stormfather to Gavilar in the KoWT Prologue - it seems not so clear as we think of it. Mishram being insane right now, not just from her imprisonment but from this overextension is highly probable in my opinion. RoW ch 73:

Quote

In the past, Odium granted forms of power, but Ba-Ado-Mishram thought she could do it. Ended up handing out forms of power as easily as Fused give each other titles, Connected herself to the entire singer species. Became a little god. Too little

KoWT prologue:

Quote

She created your parshmen, he said. On accident. Long ago, after the Heralds’ final visit but before the Recreance, Mishram tried to rise up and replace the God of the Voidbringers. She gave the common voidbringers forms, Voidlight, abilities. To fight for themselves.
“Curious,” Gavilar said. “And then?”
And then...she fell. She was too small a being, not strong enough, to uphold an entire people. It all came crashing down, and so some brave men and women—Radiants—did something that had to be done, trapping Mishram in a gemstone to prevent her from destroying all of Roshar. The side effect of that event created the parshmen.

Note that the Stormfather said that Mishram felt BEFORE she was imprisoned. I don't expect her story to be just "let's release her and everything will be as it once was."

Regarding TOdium, it's possible that the fact that a human Ascended to Odium will enrage her IF Rayse was masquerading as a Singer even in front of her and she didn't know he was a human.

17 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I'm wondering if it was specifically imprisoning her in the SR that caused such wide-reaching effects, since it is 'everywhere and nowhere'.

I'm not so sure of that. I think that it's her broken Connection to Roshar, which she established to grant forms of power to all Singers, did all of this, not that she's in SR specifically. But it's possible, SR is weird and she was there while being trapped in a gemstone - somehow.

Quote

"Agreed," Pattern said. "Mishram became like a god to the singers, the parshmen. She connected to Roshar, and echoes of that filtered to the spren. Ah, so wonderfully odd. Her imprisonment is the reason broken bonds now have such an effect on the spren."

9 minutes ago, therunner said:

Or more likely Brandon changed his mind, as based on Pattern's description it is 'sort-of' a place, he even literally calls it a place.
And since basically all the info on SR is WoB, it would not even be a retcon.

  Reveal hidden contents

"The Spiritual Realm is stranger by orders of magnitude. It is a place where the future blends with the present. The past echoes, like the striking of a clock. Time and distance stretch, like numbers, infinitely repeating. It is where gods live, and even baffles some of them."

If anything, just because of that description I do expect Shallan do actually go there.

It's possible, but I doubt it. But I agree, Shallan will "go" to SR, but not with her body, but with her mind. 

11 minutes ago, therunner said:

Hmm...could 'Unite them', have been BAM all along? In that she is calling to him, because she wants to 'unite' deadeyed spren (or singers) with their fragments to restore them?

I doubt it. It doesn't fit for her to do that when Dalinar was opening a perpendicularity and Ascending in OB. There was something going on a Shardic level.

16 minutes ago, therunner said:

That is just Kelek's opinion, and he has not been in contact with Mishram for literally millenia. Sure, it is likely bet, but things change.

I don't think she will stop hating humans after they imprisoned her for 2500 years. It might get even worse.

That was interesting, I didn't expect BAM to be imprisoned in SR. How was that even possible? Very interesting. I wonder how they will recover her, not by physically going there as from WoBs we know that's not how SR works - it's not a place (WoB1 WoB2). I thought if BAM was in the vision Dalinar had at the end of WoR - many suspect that was a Dawnshard, based on how similarly it felt to Rysn becoming the Dawnshard, but could it be BAM, and those feelings and light was just the consequences of her essence and investiture bleeding through SR into Dalinar?

I did expect that not many Honrospren would join Radiants, but not that few. However I think Notum will organize the Honorspren navy to recover Shadesmar from Odium's control, the hint of this was quite clear in my opinion.

And lastly we have confirmation that Shallan draws upon Fortune when drawing, which wasn't surprising, we knew from WoBs that Shallan fiddles with Connections and SR, but what was interesting is that Kalak for some reason seemed to be not surprised by that, even expecting that. Weird. Does he know about something we/she doesn't know (Chana)?

Love to see Maya speak so much, she's really getting better  

1 minute ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

ROW Spoilers

  Hide contents

What are your thoughts on Spook being sixteen? I remember there was a thread about how using cadmium bubbles he could be using time dilation to still be alive in current time (era 2). 

RoW spoilers:

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

On the other hand, it could prop their spiritweb up in a more complimentary way (not a cure but a more helpful direction for self-development).  Nale Bonded the same Order as his Herald Madness so it makes sense that his would not help or even widen the cracks, but perhaps Ash will have a different experience moving to a completely different Order.  

Yes, I agree, Nahel Bond might help them, but it won't cure them. I did say it might brace their souls. But as you said, bonding a spren will deal only with a part of the problem - their trauma, manifestation of their broken soul, which is their madness, but won't fix their soul. For Ash Dustbringers are an excellent choice as they are all about self-control over their destructive potential and Ash right now struggles to stop herself from even thinking about destroying her religious images. Nale lacks emotions and compassion, Edgedancers might be great in helping him see his flaws - Lift proved this already. I have no idea about Ishar - maybe Lightweavers? He lies to himself about being Almighty, Adonalsium and all this stuff, a healthy dose of truth and self-reflection might be helpful. Taln is beyond the help of Radiant Ideals, he's broken the most. He suffered thrice as much as the remaining nine. He’s now in vegetative state, unable to respond, communicate, or even think. This won’t help him at all, when he can't even say the Words. 

But all of this, while helpful, is treating the symptoms not the disease itself. Their soul is still overburdened by their age, their trauma, layers of PTSD and memories of endless torture on Braize. All of this is beyond what a human soul was made for. A direct Shardic intervention might fix them, a Shard might be able to reinvest them, create another fresh copy of their soul with no cracks, no memories of past torture - basically create a Cognitive Shadow of a Cognitive Shadow. But that would kill them anyway, this time we do like Vasher said, we create a copy of a soul while the real one is fading into the Beyond. This time we all know they are not those people anymore, they are just copies. I don't want to suggest this is the only way of healing Heralds, certainly it can't be, but this is the "easiest" way of doing so - from the perspective of those who aren't Heralds of course as for them there would be no difference in curing the real Heralds, or making a copy of them.

1 hour ago, Dofurion said:

Considering this, could it be that the answer is to find the correct order to cure them?

No, because that doesn't affect how their soul ages. 

45 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

This is news to me.

I thought it was just Auto telling them, but now an unnamed Hemalurgist was involved?

There is always another WoB  

23 hours ago, EDPDragon said:

There's a trend between the ideals sworn by radiants and the heralds gaining moments of lucidity, if only for brief times. Would a herald that attracts a spren and ascends multiple ideals be able to more permanently heal their madness? I'm no expert, but I would assume it would be especially difficult to get someone who is mad to achieve a bond. The state of relations between heralds and spren might make things difficult as well. Spren might have harsh prejudice toward heralds similar to the honorspren's refusal to risk bonding men. Also to be taken into consideration, Nale has also already bonded a spren and ascended to the most difficult and powerful 5th ideal, and he still appears insane despite getting a bit better in his encounter with lift. It could be possible that personal nahel bonds can make the madness less extreme, but not a complete cure.

The problem with Heralds lies in their soul, which is broken beyond what's humanly possible. They've lived for thousands of years and a human soul isn't made to exist that long, on top of that most of their existence was on Braize, being tortured again and again and again. Something like this is impossible for a human soul to withstand, even a heavily invested one. A spren bond might help brace the soul and mitigate some of those effects of madness, but as seen from Nale that's not really making any difference. A Nahel Bond can also have the opposite effect, it can widen the cracks of their soul, breaking it even more.

To help Heralds you would probably have to deal with their trauma first, but that alone isn't enough. You would need to somehow fix their soul and make it functionally immortal and that's the biggest challenge as a human soul simply isn't made for that.

WoR Synopsis:

Quote

It is the nature of the magic. A broken soul has cracks into which something else can be fit. Surgebindings, the powers of creation themselves. They can brace a broken soul; but they can also widen its fissures.

Just to point out, we don't call Stormlight as Honorlight, Voidlight is not Odiumlight, so why would Warlight be of War Shard when all other light names don't include the names of Shards they represent? I don't think the combination of Honor and Odium will be War. Science is more likely as the light's name is Towerlight and it does represent science as Navani said. 

23 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Hi All. 

This is an issue Ive had in the back of my mind since I read era 2 and I'm hoping you all can reason me through it. 

We see in Era 2 that spikes made from Trellium are able to shield Kandra from Harmony's sight. This is a huge revelation that leaves the Kandra and Set investigating further into the Metallic Arts as clearly there are things they haven't figured out (what secrets of Rashek will we never know?).  

My issue is this - why, in all of these scientific experiments did no one try burning Trellium or using it as a metalmind?

The Set would know the history of Lerasium and Atium and were given Trellium by Autonomy. It seems like a plot hole that they would only use this new metal in one of their three Metallic arts. If it has no function in the other two, why not mention that quickly either in text or ars arcanum or in person? 

There were no mistborn, did they just not try because of this? The Atium retcon was put in because God Metals should be burnable by anyone. This seems like a plot hole to me.

Sorry if this has been discussed before. 

Firstly, I'm gonna start by saying that when Brandon says "anyone can burn god metals" he means any Allomancer, not every person in Cosmere. Only Lerasium is different, as Lerasium granting Allomancy is just a side effect and an Allomancer burning it would do something else. This is my opinion, I think some WoB points towards that conclusion, but that's debatable.

As it was said by others before me, the knowledge about god metals on Scadrial is very basic, they don't even know that Era 1 Atium was just an alloy and not a pure god metal as they think it was. And what do they know about this supposedly pure god metal - it can be burned only by either a full Mistborn, or a specific kind of a Misting created by Preservation to specifically burn this god metal (they didn't know they were just electrum Mistings). So Scadrians know that it takes a special person to burn god metals, but those are absent from their society for at least 200 years now, as Spook was the last full Mistborn alive. Why even try this when you know you have no hopes of succeeding?

Another factor is the intent. It's not as easy as swallowing a metal and burning it (while it mostly seems like that's it from Vin's experiences in Era 1), it's a bit more complicated than that - that complexity prevented Inquisitors from gaining the ability of compounding, despite the fact that they'd started to mix Feruchemy and Allomancy after Rashek's death. Compounding is just Allomancy with a new type of metal, but to actually burn those metals you need to have an understanding of what's happening and what it might do to you. A kind of understanding that would take some time to develop when trying to burn a new type of a god metal. Set might have concluded that Trellium does nothing (or that it can't be burnt) because they've failed to develop this proper intent - if they even tried burning it at all, which I think is doubtful.

In terms of using Trellium as a metalmind, we're going back to my first point - they really had no idea that god metals can be used Feruchemically by "anyone," truthfully we don't know that either. There was never any example of someone who was not a Feruchemist that was using a god metals, we only know that Atium-electrum alloy can be used (they believe it's pure Atium) but for that they need to be a full Feruchemist - those are gone now. There is no point in trying when they know they will fail. Moreover I believe that it's not as simple as touching a god metal and storing something - again, you need to know what it does, you need to know what attribute to store, you need to have this proper, very specific intent. You can't just randomly store something without knowing what it is. Set had no chance of actually succeeding by their understanding so why waste precious resources in vain when they can use Hemalurgy, an art that literally anybody can use and they know that.

And with that I think it's pretty reasonable why nobody ever tried to use Trellium Allomantically and Feruchemically. Scadrians believe that you need to be either a full Mistborn or a Feruchemist to make use of god metals and those are gone in Era 2. Additionally you have to have a proper intent, which encompasses understanding, which is hard enough to develop that even Inquisitors who knew of compounding, never succeeded in doing that after Rashek's death (Marsh for example).

Then there is one question left to answer - why we've never heard about any Set attempts to burn Trellium. The answer is comically simple - we had no PoV of theirs, the story was focused on Wax, Wayne and Marasi, not Set members. Our protagonists weren't members of Set to actually know about their experiments with Trellium - we've only seen their successful effects. Autonomy's god metal was always a mystery for W&W and therefore for us. 

But I do agree with you that this issue should be mentioned in the series somewhere. I wish Brandon addressed Atium retcon in Era 2 and what it means "anyone can burn god metals" and using Trellium to explain this would be great, even if nothing were to happen. But for me it’s more like a missed opportunity rather than a plot hole.

19 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

The Words of Founding go into a lot of depth with Feruchemy, and the only written 'instructions' for Hemalurgy are from Spook, which the Set did not have. It seems like a plot hole to me that they would exclusively try experiments with the least known of the metallic arts when given a new metal. 

Actually Set gained their knowledge about Hemalurgy from interrogating someone who knew a lot about it, but didn't want to cooperate (that excludes Paalm). We don't really know who that was, in my opinion there are only three people that fit this - Kelsier, Marsh and Spook if he's still alive (which is likely, he has cadmium). I doubt Kelsier, the Ghostbloods' leader would allow himself to be caught by Set, I doubt Marsh the Death with all his powers would also be caught by Set, so that really leaves Spook, or some unknown person/Kandra as the only option. Either way, they still had to spend years to get where we saw them in Era 2. It took them at most 6 years to jump from 3 spikes to 4 and to make a better Chimera with 2 spikes - and that was when they were already advanced in their knowledge of Hemalurgy.

And because it took them years to succeed in using Trellium Hemalurgically, I highly doubt that they would waste time and Trellium to figure out how to use it with Allomancy or Feruchemy, especially when they believed that only a full Mistborn/Feruchemist can utilize them in those arts. 

2 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

I was looking into Shardplate spren on found the following on the coppermind

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Shardplate#Known_Shardbearers

It states "The windspren in question where already following him long before he swore the Fourth Ideal."

I've often wondered about this and have wanted to ask B$ for a while but never had a chance; if the Spren that make up his armour are the same ones that fly with him, that were helping him split the storm in Oathbringer.

There isn't a reference included as to where the information on the Spren came from - Has this been confirmed by Brandon these are the same spren? It leads me to wonder if the plate spren as always with the radiant; like Shallan being accompanied by creation spren.

RoW ch 114:

Quote

Kaladin stepped up beside Rlain and rested a hand on his shoulder. Rlain couldn’t feel the Plate, though it was apparently always there—invisible, but ready when needed. Like a Shardblade, but made up of many spren.

In my opinion this suggests that once you swear the 4th Ideal, you've got the same group of Lesser Spren hanging around you, ready to become your Shardplate at your command. But that's only after you swear the 4th Ideal, before you just attract any Windspren close to you, and that is what Kaladin was doing before RoW in my opinion. 

It even makes a little sense. Kaladin and Syl need to be close together, otherwise Syl will start losing herself and they will lose awareness of each other, as seen in RoW. What if Kaladin was in a place with no wind and no Windspren? He would be unable to summon his Shardplate, if he just summons random spren that are close by, as they should also work by proximity like Syl does. It makes more sense that once you obtain a Shardplate, those spren are staying close to you, so no matter the location you're in, you can summon them.

14 hours ago, slavagh said:

Hero of Ages spoiler:

  Hide contents

Shards can die immediately after confrontation: Vin and Ati died that way. We don't know how many fights two shards can have. Receiving a wound in the first fight and being killed in the second counts as prolonged death to me.

HoA:

14 hours ago, slavagh said:

What do you mean she was close to witness the fight? Being on Roshar is close enough given that distance doesn't really matter for Shards.

Her mind and attention was focused on the fight. Just being on Roshar isn't enough, they need to look at it and Shards can't infinitely divide their attention, their minds aren't infinite. 

14 hours ago, slavagh said:

I assume the Stormfather has only a splinter of power. A large one, but still quite a limited amount. You can use a limited amount to Ascend, but not necessarily to become a shard. Other splinters are spren. Do you think that is it? There are no more large splinters of Honor left after the fight? 

I think that too about the Stormfather, but he's also Honor's Cognitive Shadow, he should have Connections to all pieces of Honor, even if they aren't attached to him. It might be problematic to reach them for someone like Dalinar, but that should be possible in my opinion. 

Spren existed before Honor's death, they weren't created during the Splintering of Honor, they should not matter in recreation of Honor. I don't count them as pieces needed for that. I do think there are larger Splinters of Honor in SR, not aware, just raw power staying in SR, but because of Stormlight, Spren and all this cycle of investiture on Roshar, which circulate massive amount of investiture compared to other places, this raw power stays dormant, it doesn't go nuts like Dor for example, as all this cycling provides a relief.

14 hours ago, slavagh said:

How can he reunite splintered pieces that have gained sentience? It would be killing.

I don't count Splinters/Spren as necessary elements for Honor's recombination. They are sentient, they've existed long before Honor's death, they were made by Honor in the first place and they are fully autonomous. Spren are just a drop of water in the ocean of power that a Shard holds. 

14 hours ago, slavagh said:

That is why I am leaning toward something (other than what Stormfather is holding) that can be absorbed. Something like large chunks of power in the Cognitive or Physical realm that could have been left on Braize after the fight.

I do agree that there is something else, but I think it's just a raw power left Splintered in the SR, as there is no evidence for any Splintered raw power of Honor existing in CR or PR.

5 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I am totally on board with this, but what piece specifically do you need Surge of Transformation for? 

To Soulcast. To give them Stormlight, transport your image of change into them and to change their soul. It's not just talking, it's commanding and pushing through the resistance of their soul to make drastic changes in it - something that requires certain abilities. The change itself is the Surge of Transformation. You are changing something important in their soul and they can't just do it, that has to be done via some ability, the Surge of Transformation.

9 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Do you need the surge to be able to talk to the object? That seems unlikely since the object has its own soul. 

It's possible. You need to be at least invested to sense what impression the bead is carrying, it's possible you need to have specific abilities to connect between CR and PR - Shallan is able to move into CR due to the Surge of Transformation. 

11 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Do you need the surge for the object to use your stormlight? That doesnt seem likely either as you could have it use a gemstone instead.

Stormlight has to come through you. That's why Soulcasters are turning into essences they use.

12 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Does the object 'borrow' the surge access from you to transform itself? That doesn't seem to make any sense. 

it's you who makes a transformation, not the object. The object nearly accepts it, but this acceptance isn't required, as Jasnah proved when she Soulcasted people.

16 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

The surges are unlike Allomancy in that the surges exist regardless of and predate the shattering.

Yes and no. The Surge of Transportation represents one of the fundamental forces of Cosmere, the power of Creation itself, just like Allomancy does. The specific Surge used by Knights Radiants is manifestation of this Surge filtered through Honor and Cultivation.

20 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I know that Honor placed restrictions - is this an example of that? Before the Radiants everyone / anyone had access to the surges and we hear Raboniel speak on this (all the burned cattle and people). 

On Ashyn that was because of a Dawnshard.

21 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Since the surge is just a phenomenon and not necessarily its own magic system (Radiants are a magic system but Gravitation for example exists with or without Radiants), what piece of the puzzle do you need Transformation for?

Ability to access that force of creation. That's the piece of the puzzle you're missing. You can't use it if you can't access it. You need to bond spren or be an Elantrian to do that.

However I will give you that - Dawnsingers were able to do that. They could shape and change things with their songs, so this might be possible for some with special abilities. But now it's forgotten and Hoid is not a Dawnsinger. RoW ch 67:

Quote

Remember, the stones said. The ground in front of her stopped rippling and formed shapes. Little homes made of stone, with figures standing beside them. Shaping them. She heard them humming.
She saw them. Ancient people, the Dawnsingers, working the stone. Creating cities, tools. They didn’t need Soulcasting or forges. They’d dip lengths of wood into the stone, and come out with axes. They’d shape bowls with their fingers. All the while, the stone would sing to them.
[...]
“How?” Venli asked. “Radiants didn’t exist then. Spren didn’t bond us … did they?”
Things are new, the stones hummed, but new things are made from old things, and old peoples give birth to new ones. Old stones remember

3 minutes ago, TheFrugalWizard said:

Okay, let me set the stage. 

The alleyverse is a planet in which all planets of the cosmere exist together. Scadrians, Rosharans, Nathalians, etc. Every so often, there is an event called the alleystorm that is seperate from normal highstorms in its nature and origin, which refills Investiture in a similar way to a highstorm. Mainly in that it refills stormlight, like a highstorm. The stormlight is concievably unkeyed, so therefore I would be able to use it for compounding? I understand that purified, unkeyed Investiture is required for something like this, but at the storm originates on a third part planet that's purpose is purley for the interaction of different Cosmere characters.

Sorry, I had no idea what the Alleyverse is. In that case it sounds like you can use that investiture from the Alleystorm to fuel your Feruchemy, as long as it's unkeyed. 

20 minutes ago, strmblsd said:

so savants have better control and power from it. and Wayne we can see can bend and manipulate his bendalloy bubbles like nobody else. and wax he can make his push bubble around him and can pick out different parts of it. Id like to say they both are savants. what do you guys think?

No. While initially Wax was designed to be a Savant, Brandon had to back out of this after reconsidering what Savantism actually means and that Wax needs a Savant-consequences from his Savant powers. Wayne is a tricky one. By the end of TLM he learned a lot about manipulating his bendalloy bubbles, but he was still not a Savant - for the same reason as Wax. A bendalloy Savat is able to anchor the speed bubble to themselves, Wayne was still not able to do that. 

In BoM ch 8 we see a normal Coinshot generating his own steel bubble, so this is not a power of Savants.

Quote

The brute smiled. Doors still rattled around him—he was a Coinshot, obviously, Pushing out with a bubble like the one Wax used. It even pressed a little on the metalminds Wax wore on his upper arms, which were resistant to Allomancy.

1 hour ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I feel like Hoid of all people could soulcast without being a Radiant. At the heart of it, you are convincing an object to change itself, and providing the power needed to make that change. I dont know why he would need to become a Radiant for this. 

No, you need a power for that, you need a Surge of Transformation to Soulcast. You can't do that without that. Just having investiture is not enough. 

20 minutes ago, strmblsd said:

ok so ive been thinking why is night blood unlike other awakened objects in that particular way. my personal thought is that night blood is essentially a spren in investiture levels. he has so much investiture that in the same way as spren he can think. what do you guys think about this?

Yes, Nightblood is basically a robot-spren. Nightblood is even more invested than the most invested spren on Roshar, except for the Stormfather (and maybe other 2 Bondsmith spren). He was Awaken specifically to mimic Spren from Roshar, as Vasher and Shashara visited Roshar and wanted to do that with Awakening. But they've made him sentient on purpose, it wasn't an accident, it's not just raw investiture, he had to be Awaken in a specific way to give him that sentience. In Awakening a Command and a proper visualization with right intent are the most important things, they wanted to do that. Warbreaker ch 51:

Quote

That was the great crux of the problem, the issue that had dominated most of Vasher’s life. A thousand Breaths. That was what it took to Awaken an object of steel and give it sentience. Even Shashara hadn’t fully understood the pro cess, though she had first devised it.
It took a person who had reached the Ninth Heightening to Awaken stone or steel. Even then, this pro cess shouldn’t have worked. It should have created an Awakened object with no more of a mind than the tassels on his cloak.
Nightblood should not be alive. And yet he was. Shashara had always been the most talented of them, far more capable than Vasher himself, who had used tricks—like encasing bones in steel or stone—to make his creations. Shashara had been spurred on by the knowledge that she’d been shown up by Yesteel and the development of ichor-alcohol. She had studied, experimented, practiced. And she’d done it. She’d learned to forge the Breath of a thousand people into a piece of steel, Awaken it to sentience, and give it a Command. That single Command took on im mense power, providing a foundation for the personality of the object Awakened.

14 minutes ago, TheFrugalWizard said:

So you're saying that I can't directly refill a metalmind with stormlight, because that power comes from myself (this is a character for the Alley verse btw), but I can simulate drawing that power from stormlight by compounding. Because from what he said, I can use stormlight to compound. So... I can put power in, and then use stormlight to compound, using the stormlight to fuel the feruchemy. Is that right?

No, you can't if you can't breathe in Stormlight and UNKEY it. Even being both a Radiant and a Feruchemist might not be enough. We don't know yet, but from those WoBs it seems like you need more than that. Look again at the last WoB - Stormlight is keyed to Honor, you need to unkey it fully, you need to have the same situation as with purified unkeyed Dor. Only then you will be able to use unkeyed Stormlight to fuel Feruchemy, in the same way compounding works. But Stormlight on its own won't fill metalminds, it has to go through you where you will give it a form - turn it into an attribute and just store it. It's technically compounding, but this doesn't work like typical compounding - you don't burn anything, you just somehow turn it into attributes. But unkeyed Stormlight is a must. TLM ch 40:

Quote

“I appreciate the sentiment,” Kelsier said. “You and Moonlight are to assist Miss Colms. In fact, I think it is time to do something drastic. Take the stores of purified Dor"
[...]
“What is it?” Marasi whispered.
“Concentrated Investiture,” Moonlight said. “Unkeyed from any Identity. This is an energy source that can power things like your Metallic Arts.”
“Those are powered by the gods.”
“Exactly,” Moonlight said. “This power comes from a god’s corpse. Two of them actually, intermingled. It’s exceptionally difficult to recover. The things that you could do with this … well, that I could do with this. You’d only be able to use it as a hyperefficient replacement for your metals. You don’t know how good you have it here on Scadrial, being able to power your abilities with something so common.”

If you're not a Radiant and capture Stormlight in a gemstone, then you somehow unkey it, only then you can use it to power other Invested Arts, just like Pure Dor can. But this is something that even Ghostbloods haven't done that yet, they are close, they know how to, but they have no ability to do this as for now. It's easier to just use purified unkeyed Dor, even if it's a struggle to get it compared to Stormlight.

Unfortunately it's not as easy as getting any kind of investiture and fueling your Invested Arts in it, you have to tamper it, you have to purify it, you have to unkey it first. Some might work easier than others (like you easily use Breaths to fuel Surgebinding), others, particularly Metallic Arts are hard to outsource. It works with Feruchemy and Allomancy probably only because all three Metallic Arts came directly from Ruin and Preservation, they are keyed to them and those two Shards can easily fuel them if they want to.