Ixthos

Just now, CryoZenith said:

I mean that if Brandon will have decided to randomly give you a cameo appearance in Stormlight 6 or something, I would have been incorrect about my assessment that my least favorite character in SA is Venli :3.

... Ouch.

Just now, CryoZenith said:

Oh wow, you just reminded me that time and causality are different in the SR than in the PR or CR. So then the ideal of what you could be can allow for present you to be filled with investiture that flows through cracks opened... in the future.

Ugh. It's definitely plausible, Syl definitely makes a solid argument for this working, but I'll be honest, man, I just hate reverse causality :)).

Or ... do you mean you will have hated reverse causality yesterday? 

Just now, CryoZenith said:

Hm. I have a small issue with the phrasing "differing from the ideal version of yourself". Because that alludes to the way healing works in the cosmere, which funnily enough is evidence against some of this stuff. Like, when someone with healing magic heals themselves, they don't become worse at healing magic. (and you could argue that's because they're only healing physical body, not their spiritweb, but Brandon explicitly said that gold compounders can heal their spiritweb itself, and so can Hoid, so that doesn't work). If there was a strict connection (lowercase c) between performing arcana and spiritweb cracks, in the sense that ability to perform arcana was strictly conditioned by there existing cracks that could be filled by foreign investiture, even if it's not a linear relationship, then you'd expect to see at least some loss of power from self-healing, but there seems to be none.

So like, to clarify my exact hypothesis, I think everyone has microcracks in their spiritweb, sure, but I think that even someone with a perfectly intact spiritweb could use minor arcana, whether that person exists or not.

The ideal Cosmere human can't use healing, but the ideal version of a Feruchemist, gold Ferring, Surgebinder, etc., can. The ideal version of someone, and the way they are now, are not aligned, and this manifests as points on their soul that are "rough", they are like the seeds a crystal can grow around. Because they don't match what the person could be, there is a place where something else can be attached. Once attached you are no longer working towards being the ideal human, but the ideal of a different version of a human, like a Surgebinder becoming closer to the ideal of their Order, a Windrunner becoming closer to the ideal of a human with the power to protect - a manifestation of protection - or a Stornward towards the ideal of someone who is reliable - the manifestation of reliability.

This isn't to say the person's self perception and ideal in the Spiritual Realm don't factor in, but rather that we are discussing three separate things, and a fourth component, the fourth being their cognitive perception. The three main elements are the ideal human, the ideal version of themselves (which is connected to the idea of the ideal human but distinct from it, as it is an instance of it) and who they currently are spiritually.

As we know and you mentioned, a gold Ferring or a gold twinborn can heal from a Hemalurgic spike, even though that damages their spiritual component - the healing actually alters their spiritual component. But we also know that it is filtered through their cognitive perception - Rysn couldn't be healed because she now say her paralysed legs as a part of her. Her ideal self has functioning legs, but her cognitive perception hinders that.

Still, to your point, it could be there is still room to "attach" something to the ideal human, but perhaps the ideal human already would be someone who could use Investiture, and the attachments are more in line with bringing someone into that ideal.

4 hours ago, Kennards said:

Hi,I'm not exactly a cosmere expert so what I might have overlook an important piece of information but I was thinking about implementing fabrials directly into a human body the other day.

Basically my idea was to implement the design of the emotion bracelet unto the back of some guy but using brass as an encasing. So it would let him control his different emotions. But to do that the system would need to connect to his neural system,so I thought that it was impossible.

 

Then I remembered a specific aspect of the emperor's soul, resealing. Resealer's are described as highly knowledgeable of the human body,and we also know that it extend to the brain because they manage to fix the head of a guy who got a shot in the head.

 

So here's my question,could a resealer with the right fabrials create fabrial enhanced humans without having to take oaths?

(PS:I'm sorry if some parts aren't clear,while I can read English I still have trouble with actually writing it ^^)

I would imagine anything is possible - I think seeing different types of Cosmere cyborgs would be cool, and this would make it at least three hypothetical types. If it just involves Fabrials and a resealer, I don't see why it wouldn't work. Nice idea  (though I don't think I'd want to be one  it would be interesting seeing how the spren interact with being inside a Fabrial that is someone's body, especially if the Fabrial starts to be seen as a part of them).

5 hours ago, Benkinsky said:

Seriously, I'm already thinking what kind of Era could be fun for this.

1. Olden days? Not much technology, for sure Swords and bows for fighting, Valors Magic system isn't super common, and Shades are super rare too. Could be a story about the new god being fairly new, cults around it, maybe the story of the first Shadow or one of the first to come into existence.

2. Later times, but not super technologically progressed yet. Some kind of war going on and our protagonist goes on a quest to get the power to stop it/stop the destruction of her home/whatever, and either it's simple and she gets what she needs, or, what I would find even more cool, she gets an artefact blessed not (just by Valor, but either by both or Mercy, and it's a shield. Maybe both, tbh. The perfect blend of Bravery to get into the action and Forgiveness.

3. Modern days. Protagonist: a Journalist or Reporter. certainly a brave profession, wouldn't you agree? especially if you're the one trying to expose that one of the World leaders has been "touched" (a Mercy shade got them) and is no longer fully themselves. The artefact: a camera or something like that. Could be a fun duo with some old-timey warrior ghost that has to deal with the modern world and them having lots of fun conversations.

Hmmm ... they all certainly do have potential  they also allow exploring how cultural views on valour and mercy change over time, and what is and isn't seen as valorous.

1. I like that, the first people to be influenced by Valour, and the forging of the first weapons or items as well, and the foundational myths that later cultures use, so heroes of that time become seen as deities or legends later.

2. To add to that, this can also be when Mercy or an Avatar shows up, changing the magic or adding a new one in, and then factoring in the idea of valour being more complex than just bravery in battle, but also bravery in moral choices. I like the idea of the artefact she gets being something new, the first item to not just be exclusively of Valour but of Valour and Mercy, and the battle she thought she had to face with it turns out to be a different one than she thought, with her defeating whoever is attacking her people requires showing mercy too, and perhaps winning over other tribes or peoples who her people had previously been antagonistic towards, and the culture starting to move more towards a one of a more unified culture - still tension, but also the idea your opponents aren't just going to attack you for glory

3. Yes! The idea that Valour is now seen in the context of all possible paths someone in the culture can have, and the risk and way of fighting it isn't physical. The idea this is a threat from mercy when the culture owes a large part of its existence to Mercy can also add extra dynamics, as the issue then isn't that Mercy is always a good thing, especially if someone sees killing someone who doesn't want to die as a Mercy. And I really like the idea of an old warrior ghost who has to adjust to this new way of life the people have, especially if they are form the pre-Mercy days, so one who says Valour doesn't need Mercy, look at the threat we are facing, it is from Mercy! But then seeing that it isn't just one or the other, but both that are needed. And the ghost can also - especially if ghosts are more rare - let the Journalist, who has their own ideas of what the past was like, see that the past wasn't either as bad or as good as they supposed.

@CryoZenith Your idea of a base level of damage all people have due to differing from the ideal version of yourself makes sense, and I think cracks are more a way of thinking of the nature of these "flaws" in a more poetic way, little imperfections that allow connections and access to deeper parts of the person. The deeper the cracks the more quickly one can connect to deeper elements of someone's soul, but even the small cracks allow some access, and as a spren becomes a part of someone the deeper its connections go.

4 hours ago, KandraAllomancer said:

Yeah, you can vote for Mistborn Era 1 in the poll on their website and submit suggestions about other Cosmere books

Cool, thanks 

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Well even if it was a new pronouncement, Honor was worshipped as a God, so if you see the future that's something to hide.

True, but it also could be something Honour only saw as a problem when he made the visions, and we know the visions came after the Recreance.

 

Also, side note, but we also know Honour had future sight, as does Cultivation, so it could be more a problem as he sensed Surgebinders would become stronger after he died and one of the most dangerous uses would be future sight. It also could be his Intent made him more focused on making vows that didn't consider the future.

13 hours ago, Frustration said:

In his final vision Honor says that to see the future is forbiden.

Do we know if this was an old injunction, or something that Honour only began to believe or say later in life?

5 hours ago, TheCollector said:

The brilliance of these puns would have blinded Moash again

I'd give you a like, but I'm all out. That kinda blindsided me, and really broke my rhythm ...

 

[Edit] Aaand they're back. Who saw that coming? Actually ... saying that was a bit myoptic of me. I should try to get a different view on this ...

@Benkinsky  this is giving me all sorts of story ideas!

 

2 minutes ago, Benkinsky said:

that makes me think of another scary Mercy concept, some kind of posession where if you were to die anyway, a Mercy shade might posess you/do something to you, and "mercyfully" grants you the chance to serve some more. It would be not quite you, but still somewhat you. Maybe culturally it's regarded as a great honour, but it's still kind of terrifying.

Oh, that's creepy! Almost like Returned, but clear to all the person walking around isn't really the original, but just enough of who they were to sometimes make you forget, and is a little too friendly.

Just now, Frustration said:

No, hemalurgy creastes a hole into someone's soul that allows them to be controlled, Singers have a similar effect with their gemhearts, humans don't have that naturally, and I don't think it's something Bondsmiths could replicate.

When Ishar was removing traits from Dalinar, or trying to, Dalinar was in immense pain. I doubt this was a process that wouldn't wound the spiritweb. Also remember the cracks can come from any source and still work - the insane could also be manipulated, more spikes add more holes which makes it easier, and the idea is Gavilar and Gavinor have a strong connection. Knights themselves must be cracked for a spren to weave into their spiritweb, but Lopen shows you don't have to have that, yet it makes the process easier. Spren by nature don't normally possess.

Also, it is key to remember that just because something hasn't been shown to occur yet doesn't mean it won't happen. Could you have predicted Nightblood could kill Rayse? There are enough reasons to think this could happen without concluding it can, and that is where the distinction lies.

 

Just now, Frustration said:

But the second Nergaoul was captured they returned to normal.

Yes, because Nergaoul was the one possessing them - part of this theory is that Gavilar will be removed from Gavinor, rather than overwrite him perminantly. Also, on that topic, we know a gemstone, swallowed, allows Yelig-Nar to merge with someone, and they then have to fight to keep control and prevent themselves from being overwhelmed. If Gavinor swallowed a gemstone this could facilitate the possession.

13 hours ago, KandraAllomancer said:

I've just learnt from Elliot Brooks' Youtube channel about this new set of SA dust jackets created by Kraken Book: https://krakenbook.com/

They apparently have the official blessing from Dragonsteel team, but, weirdly, the project doesn't seem to be advertised in any way. The dust jackets are compatible with Tor hardcovers, you can also get matching bookmarks and vote for their next project - Mistoborn Era 1 is on the list

Those look really cool  I remember seeing that artwork on the forum not that long ago - do you know if there are plans to do similar dust jackets for other Cosmere book like Mistborn?

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

HoA

  Hide contents

Everyone knew Vin had an earing, and the terris prophesies were a major focus, until people started bringing it up even I had forgoteen Dalinar's promise.

And on top of that, I doubt it's possible to possess a human who is unaffected by hemalurgy 

Gavilar has been a constant focus of this story, every prologue centred on him, including his declaration he will live forever. And again, readers picking up on it isn't the most essential part, only that there are hints that can be pointed to after the fact. Also

 

For the Hemalurgy part, why? Remember that Bondsmiths show powers that are in effect Hemalurgy without the spike. Hemalurgy manifests spiritweb affecting properties via Ruins investiture using a metal spike, while Bondsmiths manifest that power through touch. No Mistborn spoilers but we know the holes which allow one to be controlled are in a sense allowing in external connection, and Bondsmiths manipulate connection.

 

[Edit] Also, for both parts, remember the series is repeatably showing possession as a thing, including a Fused surprised during Oathbringer that humans could be possessed by spren, bonding them.

I personally think Honour (and possibly Cultivation and Odium, or parts of at least one of them) will be reformed, but I think it will be held by ten people together, so a Shard with ten Vessels. I don't know if they would be on a quest to combine the rest, but I could see at least a few of the Vessels embarking on a quest to gather the rest, and this being part of the conflict in the future.

I think Syl will become more human due to her bond with Kaladin, and she may get pulled into the Physical Realm by Ishar - if a Knight's spren, in particular an Honourspren, is more suited to survive - but I don't think she will ever truly be "human". 

19 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I think moash would say that the entire process that he went through was very uncomfortably

 

 

 

enlightening

Indeed. He was ... 

 

Blinded by the Light.

11 hours ago, Randomed said:

Hi I'm totally new and to be honest I found myself on your forum completely by accident. I don't know if you are aware, but if you're looking for a thread about the Book of Boba Fett, your forum is one of the first results ever - which is funny by the way, because as it turned out, even after registering an account, I can't browse the thread :-(
I look around here for a while and try not to disturb, and if someone can help me get to the Boba's thread - I will be grateful: *

Edit: I'm still not sure what the forum is about, but the graphics I found are beautiful. Congratulations

Welcome! Sorry about that, I just looked for that thread and I also can't access it from Google, but can from this link:

[Edit] I should have read @Robin Hatter's reply first, as he beat me to it ... by eight hours 

If you have any problems in general you can contact the site admins for help. Either way, as long as you are here I hope you enjoy yourself 

This site is the fan site for Brandon Sanderson, a skilled writer who is working on a series of interconnected fantasy/science-fantasy novels set in a star cluster called the Cosmere, other novels such as superhero fiction with a twist with the Reckoners, stories with alternative Earths, and is the author who completed Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.

Just now, CryoZenith said:

I mean, does it? He's still stuck on Roshar. The contest specifically doesn't address his ability to leave the system, right?

It depends. Both Rayse and Taravangian looked out from Roshar at the rest of the Cosmere and have expressed a desire to rule or change it. Wit assumed that whatever happened everything would be fine, that either way Rayse would be trapped, but then realised there was a loophole, but Taravangian removed his memories of the encounter that lead him to that conclusion, so it suggests Hoid realised there is still a way for Odium to leave the system. Taravangian may be fine staying in the system but sending forces out, or he may have a way to nullify the bindings.

Just now, CryoZenith said:

Well, Todium is not Rayse. Todium is a *relatively* reasonable lad. Him winning the contest of champions doesn't spell doom for Rosharan humans or anything, just doom for Dalinar.

And for the Cosmere 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

Why?

Does it have to involve Intent? Is the effect triggered or always on? How is this different from Fabrials?

Presumably the "right metals" would be the sixteen.

Why does Hemalurgy remove a part of the spiritweb of the person it strikes? Why can Feruchemists store traits in metal. It would be different from Fabrials in the same way Fabrials are different from the medallions and Elantris's Aon plates.

The right metals could be alloys with Inventions metal, so not iron but an iron alloy with the Shardmetal, etc., and the Valour, the willingness to risk danger to try something new, could be the catalyst needed.

 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

I don't think valour is the same as endangering the self needlessly, which reads more like idiocy to me. Gambling with your extremities just seems like a bad idea.

Can anyone actually become proficient in this without a high cost of human life and suffering?

Yes, because it is about being willing to try, not about needlessly endangering oneself. Tesla worked with extremely high voltage, and there are several stories of scientists and inventors experimenting on themselves - the scientist who proved that stomach ulcers came from bacteria drank a petri dish of them to prove his point, and then cured himself with antibiotics. All invention potentially carries an element of risk, and the risk doesn't need to be physical - its about carrying on despite the risks that actives the power.

 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

So if you get it wrong you risk increasing their agony for no reward?

Yes. Or get a different affect than what as intended.

 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

Why? What kind of effect?

Because it was a remix on Hemalurgy, but done for benevolent purposes. The effects could be anything from providing healing to those who come near, increased plant growth, slowed down time, a permanent Soothing or Rioting, an enhancement to the powers of anyone who comes near, or making items in the area invisible based on which are seen as distinct from the environment and which aren't.

 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

Can they choose to move on? Are they bound to the spike/body? Is the body preserved or does the magic have a shelf life? Does being able to interact with the CS follow from witnessing the effect when produced or from entering its area of effect? 

If the CS is anchored to the spike and can't move on of their own accord, this is a very cruel thing to do.

If the effect is permanent (body preserved), the CS can also enjoy such things as everyone they loved dying and their home crumbling, in addition to the mental strain and Intent warping that CS:s experience eventually.

If the spike is removed then yes, they can move on. The spike locks the body in stasis. One needs to be close enough to the body to interact with the shadow, so yes, well within the range of the effect.

It is, which is why it could also be seen as a mercy, and wise, to remove the spike if the shadow doesn't want to stay. Remember what happened with Kelsier while he was at the Well.

Possibly. There are story possibilities for someone who chose to do this and then regretted it, or it being forced on someone. Especially if it becomes like Those Who Walk Away from Omelas, with the suffering of one shadow granting peace to an entire city, and those who find out about it.

 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

I don't like it.

"Lolrandom" chaos for the sake of chaos isn't fun.

I feel like the Shards should have some underlying, immutable nature, Preservation is always Preservation, Valor is always Valor, Whimsy is always Whimsy. I'd rather see something like a broad-spectrum system, power is always drawn, but the exact way it manifests has variance. So, if we use A-pewter as a base, the exact physical enhancements could vary, like getting more speed and less strength, but the same attributes would be affected each time.

I could also see a system stemming from Whimsy as feeling unfinished, something like if Feruchemy had physical speed and memory, but not mental speed and strength.

I would also like to say, as someone with both ADHD and BPD, that each fancy is a concrete thing in the moment. I'd rather extrapolate that each system emanating from Whimsy is stable and concrete, but that there's very little consistency between the systems.

I also feel that just touching metal would be a far too easy way to access Investiture.

That's also a question, do the metals burn off in any of these systems?

I agree, and I personally don't think Whimsy is necessarily a chaos for the sake of chaos Shard, though it might be. I think Whimsy is mainly so Brandon can have slightly more bizarre magic systems. Still, it could be a Shard that, over time, becomes more and more erratic.

Whimsy could be Wonder, or the joy of childhood, though I don't want to speculate too much into this as I risk adding elements of something from my own writing in. I think Whimsy is a Shard of Emotion, and the emotion of enjoyment and imagination and seeing unexpected possibilities and acting on impulse based on what one feels.

That could work, with pewter always being physical, copper always being about detection of investiture (helping or hindering). Also agreed, I actually mentioned that earlier in this thread I believe - comparing it to ecosystem design.

(Also, hi  I'm also ADHD)

It depends on the nature of the metal - perhaps the metal needs to be near Whimsy's Perpendicularity for a time to get a charge, or you need to wait between touching metals before touching the metal would again affect you.

No, or at least not normally, as I wanted to try to do something which wasn't so focused on Ruin, though I suppose the metals persisting is more Preservation.

 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

Isn't this basically AonDor?

Sort of, the idea is that each new design is a one-time thing, so if you make a design that produces an effect then you can't reproduce that pattern - its drawn once, so invented, but then making it again isn't inventing but duplicating, and duplicates don't have the power of the original, they just exist, so then someone would try to make a subtle change, or add a new line, but it still would have to fit the core pattern so it couldn't just be random. And it does have to be a story of the enemy's life, and so no two people lived the same life.

 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

That sounds needlessly restrictive, to the tune of "sorry, we can't help you, R&D hasn't figured out a new healing spell yet." You also have no room to experiment, as each new design that works is instantly used up the moment you draw it.

Again, that ties to the idea of each having to be invented - it changes the dynamics of the magic if you can't use it all the time, and the idea being that each effect is in a sense permanent, so once done - and remember, each is a story in this example, so they have to be specific to the person - it lasts indefinitely.

 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

How is enemy defined? What happens if you do this and the person survives? Why would providing them peace turn them into a CS? Is turning them into a CS not an effect? Why do you get to dictate someone else's emotional state? Is their emotional state permanently altered?

They have to have just died or be close to dying, and they have to be someone who you personally hated or disliked or saw as a rival, regardless of their attitudes to you. It kills them instantly if they are still partially alive, but only if you aren't trying to kill them because you hate them, but rather because you do respect them and actually would have preferred they lived so you could go on hating them. It is a very case specific magic. The effect doesn't affect the enemy, they're dead but now immortal as a Cognitive Shadow. The effect could be like the previously mentioned for Scadrial and spikes Mercy, only now the person isn't anchored to their body, they can move around. It doesn't make them permanently peaceful, but rather eases them in with no pain, unlike what happened with Kelsier when he died, feeling the ripping - it is peace in that they die and become a Shadow rather than dying and feeling themselves torn from their bodies or the pain their body was in, then the pull of the Beyond.

 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

That's a high bar to entry, especially as you have to put it all together before they pass into the Beyond.

Also, making someone a CS without their consent isn't merciful.

Once you start they don't move Beyond unless you don't complete the drawing - you could actually hold them in that state for as long as you can afford to stay by their corpse with the partially completed effect and not either finish it or dismiss it, like holding your hands in front of you for a day - and these Shadows can choose to go Beyond when they wish, it is simply that they have the option of remaining.

 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

This sounds like the ruins and artefacts are generated by the magic, rather than being extant.

I'm getting strong D&D random sidequest vibes.

The ruins predate the current form of the magic, they are from an earlier time with a different form of magic that was modified when their civilisation fell.

Well, more general quest fantasy, but yes 

 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

What determines the symbols? Shouldn't symbols from a different civilisation have their own power, rather than gain new powers from being Indiana Jonesed?

It is based on the cognitive perception of the cultures involved, and how the current culture collectively views the previous, and their own relation to the previous. The stones contain a link to the power, so less like batteries and more like wires, but how that power is accessed is based on interfacing the new magic with the old.

 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

I don't think that would work. How does the Cognitive aspect of the object become a spren? What ramifications does this have for the object?

What decides if something is interesting? What happens if the thing you make is a standard fabrial?

I feel like a bead could not be taken from the Cognitive to the Physical, or that managing that would do something funky.

Also, a change in the Physical isn't immediately reflected in the Cognitive. Building a wall won't instantly cause the stones to stop being individual beads in the Cognitive. The reverse is also true, see Dalinar "healing" the statue in Oathbringer. So the object probably wouldn't be "a thing" at the point of creation.

How does any element of the Cognitive Realm work? At what point does the matter you eat become the flame someone has in the Cognitive Realm? This is in effect the reverse of what happens to someone's flame when they die, when the flame becomes the bead of a corpse, only it is a bead becoming a flame which can enter the physical realm, or a part of it can.

Invention directly observes and decides.

Just as spren - lesser spren - can manifest partially in the physical while being in the Cognitive, or as Unmade are between worlds, and as an items bead can be taken from its corresponding location in the Cognitive Realm and moved to another planet - like the Ire fortress's stones - so to can this work for the invention's spren.

True, it can't, but when Investiture is involved, Cognitive objects can be affected, see Kelsier and the campfire, manifesting beads, etc. This power is specifically about shorting out that rule and immediately making formerly disperate parts become one in the Cognitive, just like the earlier flame of a person to bead of a corpse example.

 

1 hour ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

What does power mean? Where does the power come from? Is there a maximum effective range?

What happens if you make something like a really good chair? How would powering it and controlling it affect it?

Power in this sense can include the ability to power their inventions, so the inventor being like a battery - their invention only works for them - though it also could be powers similar to Emotional Allomancy or Mental Feruchemy, including storing memories inside of their journals, which another inventor could use if they get it. In general though, the inventor almost becomes like a copy of what they made, and can do something similar to it.

That chair would FLY. AND let you make SPEED BUBBLES. AND produce a Soothing! And it also would be very, very comfortable. Mainly though, the Inventions need to attract Invention's attention, and it is dependent on what the Inventor was trying to do. A chair may attract Invention's attention, but it would have to be different in a significant way from other chairs and do something very novel.

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

I don't like this, Gravitation isn't actually flight.

We are talking about mad science and perception. They couldn't lash others, but I don't see their hair spinning like a rotor. If their invention can fly, they can fly - and Gravitation is flight in the way that all movement through the air with the ability to control how long one remains aloft is flight. Submarines may not swim, but a plane does fly, and a Windrunner can move themselves remain motionless in the air, or travel in any direction they choose. There is little difference between a Windrunner using Gravitation and Superman willing himself to travel through the air.

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

Would a badly tuned music box, or one playing an ear-worm, let you Riot?

... YES 

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

I get that this is probably based on the concept of sharing ideas, but I don't really like it. I think any time someone speaks directly into another's mind, there's a Connection between them, so I'm curious how this works mechanically.

There are several ways of thinking of telepathy, and one is that of broadcast telepathy, of producing a signal everyone else around you can hear but not being able to hear their thoughts. Like Memorial on Star Trek Voyager, or in a singular case one could argue the Inner Light on Star Trek the Next Generation, with Picard having an entire life - which he lived - beamed into his mind over the course of a few minutes.

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

I mean, this is basically the Nahel bond. I think it's too similar.

This came up in the thread before, but basically Valour feels very similar to Honour to me, which is why in this thread we looked at Valour more as a Norse style warrior focus rather than a knightly one, but either way the idea isn't around swearing oaths or improving the bond but rather the spren hanging around you is because of how you conduct yourself in a specific type of situation, rather than requiring constant actions.

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

Who judges these qualities? Is there any margin for error, or is being human enough to guarantee that the bond will break at some point?

Does the bond breaking hurt the spren?

The spren, as with Surgebinding, unless the spren is actually a form of Avatar for a combination of Valour and Mercy, in which case it is an projection of them showing you favour, and so each spren is actually the same being. The bond only breaks if someone feels fear and chooses not to at least try to fight it, or sees someone begging for mercy who clearly needs it, and refuses.

No, the bond is entirely in the power of the spren. It isn't meshing its soul with yours like in Surgebinding, but rather actively projecting power into you, and then it chooses to either continue or to stop.

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

I wouldn't be suprised if "knowledgespren" or "learningspren" or "informationspren" or "scholarspren" or somesuch weren't a thing already.

What does "know" mean in this case? Does the spren understand what it means or does it know the words?

That would make sense. I wonder if it ties to Lightweaver memory capabilities.

The spren contains a copy of the portion of the cognitive component of the person who wrote it, so they understand it to the same extent the person writing it did. The spren literally contains a copy of a small part of the person who wrote the words.

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

How is "learn" defined? Do you have to memorise every word and illustration? Do you have to understand the contents? What happens if the text has room for interpretation?

It relates to long term and short term memory. Anything in short term memory will produce a small connection, but not enough to form a bond. Once it becomes long term memory - even if it gets harder to access - the bond forms, but its strength weakens the less the person is able to quickly and accurately recall it, though if the memory is completely gone the bond is gone. The bond isn't a scaler, but a vector - so someone who remembers the words but doesn't understand them has a strong bond but can't make much use of it, while someone who can barely remember the words but understands the meaning will have a weaker bond, but can make much greater use of it - think of how Kenton could only control one ribbon of sand, but could use it to greater effect than other Sand Masters.

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

Depending on what "remember" means here, storing memories seems like a very risky prospect. Not only could you break the bond by storing your memory of what's in the book, but any stored memory should be impossible to retrieve if the bond breaks at all.

Yes, it is very risky, though there is a natural resistance of trying to store those particular memories, as it is like trying to fit the frame of a door through the door itself - the bond is facilitated by those memories, so trying to push them into it actively interferes with the storing of the memories. There are some memories that may be important to give full context and understanding to the memories that link to the spren, but if they go in then the bond remains strong but is harder to use, as mentioned in the previous paragraph.

 

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

What's the power source? Is visualisation necessary? If so, does trying to do the thing, but not as the commander thought it would be done, not work?

What happens if people are ordered to do something physically impossible, like fly under their own power?

Is trying to stop the enemy not pretty much an implicit command on the battlefield?

Is there an upper bound or time limit?

The power source is ambient Investiture in the Cognitive Realm that pools in the souls of those who lead and those who follow - it is polarised, though a Sergeant would have both for example, as they both lead and follow. It is based on perception, so if the soldier thinks this is the order they were given, and the commander doesn't know they aren't doing what he wants, the power will still flow. It goes from the commander to merge with the power in their souls, and this empowers them. Once done they have to wait a while for the Investiture to return.

If they truly think they can do it, and if the soldiers believe in their commander enough, they may fly, though that depends on if, to obey the commander before to follow another, more manageable command, they fly. So if they know they can fly to achieve an order their commander gave before, they will fly if he tells them to again.

It scales to the difficulty of the situation. Telling soldiers to attack the others - especially if you have the advantage - doesn't evoke valour, and the power also isn't always present, it depends on how much Investiture is in the environment and pooling in their souls. When you see the enemy soldiers suddenly displaying this power it usually is because your side had the advantage, so when you tell your soldiers to stop them they may gain some power - as they are now facing a more powerful opponent - but they won't gain as much as the enemy who was at a disadvantage before. And again, gaining power may not be enough to achieve the goal anyway, so you have to be at a disadvantage to gain the power, and even then you may not be able to overcome it.

It depends on how much power pooled and how much is being expended. A long battle would have given a lot of time for power to pool, but a difficult order will use it more quickly.

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

Is colour drained?

In this case no, the colour is more about drawing in more ambient power to the location

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

I apologise if I come off as stand-offish, I find things I disagree with engaging.

(incoming joke) "Oh yeah?!? While your FACE is-!"

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

¤_¤

"... oh."

 

 It's cool  i appreciate the questions. Your first few were a little off putting, but the rest was mostly fine, and a lot of those were very good questions. I enjoyed engaging with you  I look forwards to your responses to these.

8 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I think Ashyn people did Surgebind (though admittedly it might be a loose use of the word like calling the Fused spren). I figured that was a full Shardworld magic system (Cultivation) - just one where the Shard later left.

The powers are implied to be due to the Dawnshards, so it likely wasn't Cultivation, at least at first. I think she may have stepped in after the disaster, but not before.

 

8 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

It can be unkeyed 'artificially', yes, but I don't think unkeyed Investiture naturally exists.

Unkeyed may actually be the most natural form of Investiture, as it would be Investiture most likely like the Power originally had before being shattered - it may be unnatural now, but it likely was the most natural form originally. Either way, I'm not sure why it would need to be natural?

 

8 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I think that would be influenced by the Vessel's interpretation of what Preservation means. Vin would probably keep the current rate of increase IMO; Leras as we see him in Secret History would probably keep the same speed. (Originally he probably did see the need for growth, however.)

That likely ties then to the pressure the Shard exerts, the Vessel becoming less able to resist, the more "natural" or straightforwards version of the Shard becoming the default over time. In either case we can assume Vin, if she held the Shard long enough, likely would also become focused on keeping the wheel at the speed it currently is going at, which would mean removing the energy from the wheel that is being added to it to prevent it from speeding up, as acceleration requires a force.

9 hours ago, CryoZenith said:

This thread reminded me of this very interesting WoB.

It really feels like, if it is the bondsmith 4th ideal, "I accept that some oaths must be broken, if they are no longer honorable" is a concept that the Stormfather is not ready to accept yet. He seems like the type of person who has a hard time stomaching that level of flexibility, given how he reacted to the Recreance, for example.

Well, if this the theory is right then the Stormfather's character growth will certainly be a key part - nice catch 

 

8 hours ago, Nameless said:

I love everything about this theory (in all the wrong ways of course) except for the part about Dalinar winning the contest of champions. I need him to die so we get fused Dalinar, the tragedy would just be too awesome.

Thanks 

It certainly could go either way, though I'm hoping we get a slightly bittersweet ending, as it can't just end on a down note or fans will demand the sequel series immediately. Maybe we can still get both.

 

8 hours ago, Frustration said:

Both of those are too small of details to be picked up on by casual readers.

You mean like ... Mistborn: Hero of Ages spoilers:

 

51 minutes ago, Allention said:

Howdy from the Lone Star State! 

BIG Sanderson fan here. Found him thanks to TOR and the Wheel of Time, and I have devoured all of his cosmere books as well as some of his YA fiction. 

I am a school teacher and finally joined this site doing research for my students who are trying to set a 5E D&D campaign on Roshar. (I sponsor the D&D Club at my school). 

If you want to connect with me and talk all things Cosmere, you can find me here, on Twitter @AllentionTV and on twitch (channel: Allention)

I look forward to chatting it up with all of you!

Welcome and nice to meet you. For those of us who aren't American, which state is that? Hope you have a great time here! 

14 minutes ago, EldestMissBear1 said:

Hello everyone! I've been a Sanderfan for several years and it's so great to finally join the Shard! If you want to know a little about me, I'm a ballerinaEdgedancer and an Allomantic baker. My current craziness is trying to adapt the eight basic Allomantic metals to work as part of the Dungeons and Dragons Pathfinder system. I'll be seeing you all around!

Welcome! Consider yourself noticed  Hope you enjoy yourself here. Which of the eight metals do you like the most, and which has been the easiest to adapt?