Ixthos

8 minutes ago, robardin said:

That might be the origin of the name "noseball", if the lacrosse stick is considered to end in a large cup or hook that resembles a nose.

And I think it's interesting to note that Wayne said "Metalborn" are allowed at those positions, not a specific kind of Metalborn.

You'd think Steelrunners would be the most in demand in general, but if a Coinshot could fly down the field with a Push, or if the goalie were allowed to Push or Pull on metal in their glove to react faster, or an electrum burning Misting (Oracle) at goalie made it all but impossible even for a Steelrunner to score... Woohoo!

And of course if contact is allowed, a Pewterarm would be very comfortable!

And of course rather than drug checks one would be looking for illegal spikes, both to gain an unfair boost to ones native allomantic or feruchemical power, but also to try to slip an extra power past the ref! Oh, and also because it would imply someone was murdered ...

1 hour ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

First, this isn't going to make much sense unless your caught up with the The Lost Metal Release chapters including today's. Second, I am a amateur physicist at best; I've completed a (singular) college physics class.

So Wax just invented nuclear bombs. Fun. But good old E=mc² isn't going to quite do that for us with investiture in the mix. Harmony has confirmed that we need to get an I in there somewhere. To my mind the I has to modify the m. c² is a constant and isn't going to be affected, energy is the output. The two simplest results would be

E = MI c²

or

E = M^I c²

I could also see E = MsubI C² allowing for a far more complicated relationship between M and I.

People who are smarter than me please tear this to pieces. I've put this in the cosmere spoiler area in case you want to involve RoW physics somehow.

Interesting idea  however, E=m*c^2 (though from what I understand, that is only for the rest mass, and when dealing with moving objects the equation is a little bit longer, and I think it has a ^4 in it somewhere ...) is all about determining the amount of energy a chuck of matter has based on its mass - it is the relation between energy and matter. Rather, what you want is one other equation, say the equation that relates a given amount of energy to a certain amount of investiture, and from there one could then derive an equation for a relation between investiture and matter. The key point is that investiture, while it can become energy and / or matter, is not bound by a set amount within a given invested item - after all, if Wax were to full his ironminds the total mass of the Wax-ironmind system would go down, but the amount of investiture would go up. I don't think a full metalmind has any difference in weight to an empty one, thus there is no way to multiply the two, but rather one would have to add a "+ (energy-investiture relation)" into the mix.

So the equation would be (for a rest mass):

• E (energy of the item, say a metalmind) = m*c^2 (uninvested rest mass of the item) + "I*R" (I being the amount of investiture the item has, R being the energy-investiture relation)

With R as a constant, just as c^2 is a constant based on the constant c. It could be R is a more complex number, but related to some other cosmere constant.

37 minutes ago, Psych0k1ll3r said:

I thought that avatars were when the shard breaks off a piece of itself and makes that piece autonomous, but still a part of the larger whole of the shard?  Unless I'm misremembering, this would seem to indicate that the avatar would share the intent of the shard that created it, no?

Avatars are in a sense almost splinters, but remain connected. However, it is implied each Avatar has a type of Vessel, so either is in a sense bestowed on someone or was shaped with a specific mind by the Shard or by the nature of its natural formation, and as different Vessels for a Shard can subtly influence the metal produced, so to it is implied that Avatars would have at the very least subtle variations in the metal they themselves produce. This also is assuming that Avatars can't be made from combining pieces of other Shards together, which would then create an alloyed metal or something like harmonium, which is distinct from lerasium and atium.

Are you (probably) a Shard or Avatar (or Splinter), possibly created specifically as a weapon against another not-quite-as-Harmonious-as-the-name-implies Shard? Want to blow up its planet as well? Well, Trell has just the solution for you!

Based on information from the blurb, Chapters 15 and 17 of The Lost Metal previews, how Vin and Ati killed one another, and why Sazed didn't.

Step 0: Check to make sure your rival is fully invested in their planet - this will be crucial if you intend for there to be a massive light show.

Step 1: Get your only mostly stable rival into a state where the two halves that compose their power and essence are in extreme conflict. A war between its peoples should suffice, especially if your opponent is driven to both Ruin and Preserve, and they genuinely care for the well-being of their people

Step 2: Approach your rival in the Spiritual Realm where the division is most prominent. If the point of greatest division is in the Physical or Cognitive Realm, approach them there instead.

Step 3: Apply your power to this junction. Note that this step will only work if, by your nature, you repel other forms of Investiture

Step 4: Watch as the now-in-conflict halves of your opponent, polarised against one another, annihilate each other, releasing enormous amounts of power into the planet, destroying it.

(Note: if you were specially made to enact this event, it could well be you were not intended to survive it, but that is a small price to pay for the light show.)

... So, yeah, I think the explosion is going to be more than just a massive polarised harmonium / trellium explosion to wipe out Elendel, as the blurb implied Harmony ultimately saw nothing if Trell succeeds, which implies that, and makes the most sense if, Harmony was himself also destroyed. It also seems that, if Trell doesn't eliminate Harmony, then Trell would also always face the threat that Harmony posed, only now free to use his full power to avenge his people, or meddle elsewhere.

Some relevant sections of text:

The blurb / Tor book announcement:

Vin and Ruin's final moments:

Sazed becoming Harmony:

Extract from The Lost Metal, Chapters 15 and 17: 

Based on these, I think the following is in effect:

• Ruin and Preservation are among the most naturally polarised Shards, and as Vin and Ati showed, when their powers are directed in opposition to one another, they annihilate one another.
• When Vin killed Ati only their minds touched - while their powers were in opposition, at the time only their Cognitive selves made direct, destructive contact, thus the bulk of the Shardic investiture remained unaffected
• Sazed took up both powers, but by being the mind directing them both, and by being - at least in theory - in harmony, the powers could function together. If Sazed ever lost that harmony, he would be instantly killed, just as Vin and Ati had been, and the Shards would - similarly, if harmonium begins to polarise ...
• The war puts immense pressure on the two halves of Sazed's power, and is the closest equivalent to a Spiritual or Cognitive "heating" of the Shard, and polarisation of its two halves, to Ruin and to Preserve, especially coupled with Sazed's commitment to protecting the planet, yet also letting it find its own way.
• Shards can't be destroyed, just broken into smaller pieces. I don't want to go into Cosmere spoilers here at the moment, but it seems much more likely that Harmony, though a single Shard now, would splinter, and not necessarily into Ruin and Preservation, but completely and totally. Harmony would be gone, but so to would Ruin and Preservation, leaving only splinters ... and a massive wave of energy. No Cosmere spoilers, but this is I think obvious.
• Harmony is deeply invested in the planet. If Harmony is destabilised, then the conflict within the investiture suffusing the planet - as it was made by both powers together, see the underlined text extracted from when Sazed took up the two - would be functionally equivalent to the polarised harmonium / trellium explosion. The two powers, driven as close to conflict as the possibly can be before hand, suddenly allowed to act against one another, all facilitated by a being whose metal repels other investiture.

Thus Trell will destroy Harmony and the planet by replicating either in the Spiritual Realm, or all three Realms simultaniously, the same experiment Wax did - and indeed, pulling a Vin at the same time, touching the core of the Shard, or a point of division. Harmony will self-annihilate, and in so doing would do so more completely than Vin and Ati did, and thus release all the power of the Shard, or most of it, as an explosion centred on Scadrial.

What do you think? Do you think Trell plans to turn Harmony into a planet-busting bomb, or to primarily use their metals for the task?

It's certainly possible, but I doubt it - Brandon's reading from the sequel to Sixth of the Dusk implies Roshar and Scadrial are set to be opposing groups (at least generally) in Era 4, and Scadrial is specially an Earth-analogue setting, as opposed to the more fantastical technologies of Roshar. The radio likely is just that, a radio, and the first introduction of this as a new technology. Brandon also mentioned that different methods of FTL are going to be developed in competition with one another:

Quote

Skrimyt

Can Transportation-based fabrials be used to achieve Physical Realm FTL, faster-than-light?

Brandon Sanderson

This is theoretically possible, yes. Basically, I am pushing toward competing methods of FTL in the space age, and Roshar is one of the ones that has access to being potentially able to do that.

New York Comic Con 2022 (Oct. 8, 2022)

So again it implies Roshar will go one way with its magitech, and Scadrial will to another, though Seons are themselves Selish, so who knows how they will play into things.

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Now that you made me think about it, this has implications. Kelsier may have some mental issues, but he is not an idiot. Hemalurgy is prone to errors. He would not use himself as the first test subject. There must be prototypes, if you will. And they will have descendants. They will be feruchemists to a degree, if they stayed segregated from the general population.

I like the way you think  the question is, where would those descendants be, and would they still be mistwraiths/kandra, or transformed into humans?

40 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

The problem is practical. The bands involve metals that weren't available when Spook helped Kelsier reincarnate. So, yes, hemalurgy explains how Kelsier returned, but nt that he is a feruchemist. Hence the simplest way to explain that is to assume that he was stapled onto a full feruchemist.

You know, it just occurred to me now, but mistwraiths are all descended from full Feruchemists, and as Hemalurgy affects connections, might it not be possible for a mistwraith to be spiked in such a way that it "reconnected" with its ancestral power, granting the mistwraith the power it would have had if its line hadn't been transformed ... which could also play into the idea of the Set kidnapping descendants of Spook, to try to hack any connection the may have to him.

[Edit] ... aaaaaand I just saw you made that same (or similar) observation earlier in the thread. Never mind. My take - he is a fullborn kandra now, and that same technique is something the Set wants to exploit, at least in terms of ancestor hacking.

7 hours ago, Isilel said:

Far more than that. The chimaeras in Shadows of Self were also transformed via trellium spikes.

Fair point, I'd forgotten about them, but that still is far less metal than Odium has provided, and again Odium is loath to part with his power. Also, the spike in the Cycle was noted to be smaller than the other spikes, which also implies Trell is being as sparing as possible when providing the metal. And all this is still based on the assumption that Trell's metal is identical or similar enough in terms of its properties to Bavadin's, which it might not be. And, of course, the assumption Trell survives into Era 4  Maybe Trell is very willing to provide metals to their followers, and it is a variant of bavadinium, but, once they are dealt with, trellium and / or bavadinium, which might be a vital metal for many technologies, would become much rarer, with only the trellium previously available left to power an entire interstellar civilisation, and so now the hunt is on for more trellium and / or bavadinium.

7 hours ago, Isilel said:

Whether or not the medallions routinely require hemalurgy to be made, making medallions of the Aviar powers certainly would. And presumably the few birds that the factions intend to let the natives retain, if them claiming that they do is not a lie, wouldn't change the balance of great powers in any meaningful way, even if the opposition gets it's hands on them.

I'm not sure on the certainly part, as while I do agree the medallions almost certainly require hemalurgy, at least initially, in all their construction, I think it is far more likely that, once you have the systems you need, medallions can eventually "bootstrap" further production, such that you don't need another person to spike - that if you have a heating medallion and know what you are doing, you can make another heating medallion, and don't have to hunt someone down who already has heating. Maybe you do, maybe you can only get so many medallions from one person and that's it, but I imagine it should be possible to use one medallion to make more. It also is likely that, by Era 4, medallions are themselves antiquated technology, and have been replaced with something better that provides more power, and is self-sustaining.

I also think it likely, given the Shardbearer's implicit power, that he or she or they alone could have killed everyone in that room, regardless of their Aviar's abilities - that is certainly what they all think. I'm not denying it is a possibility that the Aviar are seen as a key to greater power in and of themselves that the factions interested in First of the Sun wish to deny to others, I just feel, based on Brandon's interest in the economics of magic and its impact on how societies are driven, and the implied value of shardmetals for future technologies, that Aviar as a means of accessing Autonomy's metal would be a much more interesting story than "space birds give you access to power everyone already has."

8 hours ago, Isilel said:

These powers may be particularly effective in combination with those the factions already have? Particularly Rosharans probably could profit from abilities similar to Metallic Arts. For instance, a Seeker probably can detect the use of Surgebinding, so having an Aviar with Coppercloud effect, like one of the Sixth's would be quite helpful for the latter. The Scadrians may just want to keep the birds away from Rosharans. 

I just don't see how one could distill metal from the Aviar anymore than one could produce lerasium out of allomancers.

I'm not entirely convinced that Rosharans need access to Scadrian systems to replicate their powers - I think it is implied that, once you gain enough refinement on a power, it can emulate what others can do, if not exactly - for example when Vashar took the kidnapped girl's memories of her kidnapping, which emulated copper feruchemy via Breaths. I also hope it isn't entirely a case of all of Scadrial vs all of Roshar (vs all of Sel, etc.), but rather that there are Scadrians who work with the Rosharans, and Rosharans who work with Scadrians, and so there are future Knights Radiant (or their equivalent) on both sides, even if one has more than the others. We do know some spren can emulate Seekers (in Oathbringer, for example, the ones which detected soulcasting, requiring aluminium to shield the soulcasters), and there are mechanical systems being developed and implied to be being developed to perform these functions mechanically without needing the input of a Seeker (White Sand, Wax's theory on a use for trellium, etc.).

We are talking about Era 4, where they have developed space ships and FTL. We don't know about most of the other shardmetals, and we had to wait until RoW to learn that Raysium is a polarised metal that conducts investiture. There likely is some mechanism to extract investiture from some source and then condense it - remember, Wax and Steris noted that the mists were made from vaporised lerasium, and discussed the methods of changing shardmetal states. Thus if one can take a shardmetal and, using some unknown method, turn it into vapour such as the mists, one can in theory turn the mists into the metal. Again, I'm not saying we know how it can be done now, any more than Wax knows how to make shardmetals change state into vapour, but only that it is highly likely that there is at least one method which can:

• extract investiture of a given type from a being that naturally uses that investiture
• contain that extracted investiture, and
• cause it to change state, solidifying it into a metal, or even a liquid

And this method would be useful to acquire a given shardmetal, provided one can gain access to its source. And it likely would take a lot of a given vapour / light to produce a small quantity of shardmetal.

8 hours ago, Isilel said:

It is also entirely possible that Trell went to Scadrial as a response to the Ghostblood meddling with some of Autonomy's worlds. Though Autonomy claiming multiple worlds is kinda cheating, of course.

I like that theory, though I also like the idea that Trell is going after Harmony because Harmony broke an agreement, unknowingly, that Ati and Leras made, and Harmony is being held accountable. Also, Autonomy likely doesn't see that as cheating - I get the feeling it is a little hypocritical, valuing its own freedom over that of others, and so it should be free to do what it wants, even if what it wants causes you to be less free - I want to do what I want to do, and I don't care what you want to do or if I'm hurting you, I only care that your objections are interfering with me!

8 hours ago, Isilel said:

Nah, I don't see Shallan as a founder of the Set or anything, though given that there are WoBs that Trell would continue to be a nuisance into era 3, IIRC, I could imagine her cooperating with them on some things. It does seem that Trell is afraid of Scadrial falling under Odium's sway in the future - i.e. "men of gold and red" and it's attempts to destroy Scadrial are in part aimed to prevent this.

I know, as I said, tin foil  still, I like the idea of a semi-villainous organisation in one series being "heroic" or heroic-adjacent in another, and vice versa. Though I do wonder if the men of gold and red really are Odium's, or some other faction, possibly using a mixture of multiple Shards together - Miles did say they would bear the "final metal."

5 hours ago, Firesong said:

Would it necessarily have to be that? I feel like that could also try and use the parasites the birds get their powers from, or even manage to find a way to manually convert state of Investiture. Like, we know you can remove liquid from a Perpendicularity using an aluminium vessel. So you could do that, and somehow convert it into a solid form. But this is just speculation. 

True, but remember most people don't know the worms are the true origin of the Aviar powers, and it could be that one needs to be in an Aviar for the power to even be accessible. As to direct access to the Perpendicularity, there could be some factor in play preventing that (maybe one of the laws that govern the space based societies forbids tampering directly with Perpendicularities, and perhaps trying to access a Perpendicularity to extract power from it disrupts it too much, and as such one must gain power through indirect methods), or, more likely, no permanent base can be set up there to access the power, due to the sheer danger that Patji represents - for all we know, Patji's ecosystem is too dangerous even for Era 4 technology to reliably counter.

Welcome ladies, gentlemen, and kandra of all generations, and a special welcome to those doing NaNoWriMo! Welcome to the Flexiprompts!

The idea behind this is to provide a couple of flexible, variable writing prompts, so that two people can both use the same prompt and yet get somewhat different writing suggestions. The way it works is you either choose a prompt from below or let some dice decide on the prompt for you, and then fill in the variable fields based on the result of further dice rolls, taken from the list below each prompt. I hope you find these ideas interesting, and I hope your writing goes well!

So, grab a d6 (six sided dice), roll it (or ask Google to roll for you), or choose from the following:

• If you rolled a 1 or 2 go to to Spoiler Box A
• If you rolled a 3 or 4 go to Spoiler Box B
• And if you rolled a 5 or 6 go to Spoiler Box C

Spoiler Box A

Spoiler Box B

Spoiler Box C

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy!

Impressive! What did you use to paint the picture?

13 hours ago, Isilel said:

OTOH, Trell, who is very likely an Avatar of Autonomy, IMHO, seems to be rather profligate with their metal, given all the trellium spikes that we have seen in action so far. So, I don't know about it being so rare.

Possibly, though we've only seen two confirmed examples of trellium so far (three if Suit's assassin was spiked as a precursor to being "taken"), and we know that Rayse, who was very much a hoarder of his own power (to the point that in RoW even the barest scrap of it had to be carefully looked for after the anti-light explosion due to its rarity) provided enough for the daggers and spears used by his forces. And, (and I feel this is very relevant, enough so to have "and (and)" in this paragraph ) while I certainly agree Trell is most likely at least partially related to Autonomy if not entirely, it could well be that different Avatars of a Shard have unique metals - similarly for Knights Radiant with their spren being hybrids of Honour and Cultivation, which causes their Blades and Plates to be unique shardmetal alloys, I suspect any unique mixture will have its own properties, and so if that theory is correct, then trellium might not be Autonomy's metal but an alloy of Autonomy and one or more other Shards (perhaps a bit of Ruin, as trellium certainly evokes the idea of "rust," or Odium if it is related to polarisation). If trellium is related to but distinct from bavadinium, then even if trellium is common (which it might not be, if Trell is slain and cease to exist as an independent Shard or Avatar, or if Trell has only provided a small supply of their metal, enough for the task they wish to perform), Autonomy's metal might still be sought by others later in the Cosmere, especially if the secondary theory of Autonomy being hunted and treated like a resource by the other spacefaring cultures comes into effect.

13 hours ago, Isilel said:

Concerning the Aviar, maybe they can be utilized in making of the medallions? Or Scadrians just want to deny their abilities to other powerful space-faring civilizations, even though they themselves don't gain much from posessing them, because of similarity of powers. We also haven't seen all their powers - I doubt that they are prized on the mainland for the same kind of abilities as Sixth made use of in his story.

That's certainly possible, especially if medallions require hemalurgy to be made, but we do know both factions would still allow the inhabitants of First of the Sun to have some Aviar, with whoever controls the planet taking the bulk for themselves. If it was simply a matter or denying them to any other group it would make much more sense for the plague mentioned in the draft for the sequel to run its full course, wiping out the Aviar in their entirety. Also, while Aviar abilities are cool, they are no wear near as impressive as currently shown than Surgebinding, the Metallic Arts, Sel's systems, or even Awakening - they are very much "low tech" magic, if you will. It could be as you say, that they have some other advanced ability, but either way, all this effort to gain access to a power that can only be used second hand, when we know the Metallic Arts and Surgebinding are already far more powerful than the Aviar are implied and even hinted to be ....

14 hours ago, Isilel said:

Indeed. It seems to me that much in the situation in Era 4 and attendant hostilities will be about the consequences of prior meddlings of various entities and organizations on worlds alien to them playing out. Ghostbloods on Roshar, Ire and Trell on Scadrial, etc.

Yup - and Autonomy certainly seems to be one who is the most meddling of the Shards, save for Odium. If Trell is Autonomy or an Avatar of Autonomy, then they certainly haven't generated any good will towards themselves on Scadrial! And I agree the Ghostbloods likely haven't endeared Roshar towards Scadrial, that is for certain. If my tin foil hat theory is right (actual tin, not aluminium, as aluminium is actually useful in the Cosmere for mental shields), I'm wondering if Shallan isn't behind the Set, or the Set is some other organisation's efforts to strike back at the Ghostblood home world.

I will be brief, mainly because I'm trying to focus on IRL things right now, as well as a post for a topic in the General Discussion section of the forum which I've been working on intermittently for the past few months, but this is something I've been thinking about for a while now, and the recent interactions of trellium with harmonium have brought this back to the fore. The basic premise of this theory is as follows:

• The different shardmetals not only have unique properties in and of themselves, but also with one another, as well as in various alloyed forms, including the possibility of raysium wires within devices to channel specific flows (as perhaps different alloys of raysium with another shardmetal allows only that specific type of investiture to be conducted along its length), trellium in detector devices or in the refinement of other metals, etc.
• Most of the cosmere's more science fiction related technologies, from travel to weapons to the more esoteric, will be based on the use of these various metals - not just with Scadrial's Metallic Arts, but as Fabrials, Radiant tools, etc. as well
• The shardmetals will be a primary resource to extract and use, in various forms, in the later Cosmere books, and most especially in Era 4 of Mistborn, and as such the prevalence of various technologies will depend on how readily available specific metals and their alloys are
• These metals, as they are the condensed form of a shards power, can, in theory, also be extracted from different sources of magic (for example, the spren who are naturally "organic" creatures of the Cognitive Realm, condense into metal when manifesting as Shardblades, and the possibility of condensing metal from the mists, as the refers was implied in last weeks sample chapters)
• Some metals will be more readily available than others, and some may become more readily available if a shard decides to actively contribute some of their power - thus some technologies, which depend on a rare metal, will be less common, but more sought after, than others
• Autonomy's metal will be VERY rare normally, as Autonomy's systems are rather low-power compared to most others, and Autonomy, or an Avatar of Autonomy, seems to dislike at least one manifestation of their power and tried to eliminate it (Sand mastery)
• Autonomy's investiture can be found on First of the Sun in the form of the Aviar / the worms
• People from at least two different cosmere factions want access to the Aviar, even though the Aviar abilities are already related to magic at least one of those factions (the Scadrians) commonly has access to already
• Therefore, those factions want the Aviar in order to "render them down" into Autonomy's metal

... That feels a little disturbing to me, but it seems the most logical conclusion. In any case, this also might imply, and this is a theory I think could be interesting, that Autonomy is on the back-foot in Era 4, its worlds or those with access to it being treated as resources for other factions, and an interesting reversal from the implications that Autonomy is at least partially a villain in the current eras, especially if Autonomy or one of Autonomy's Avatars is Trell. Thus a former villain becomes a put upon utility of the future cultures, someone being hounded for a resource they embody.

@hitkay, just a brief interjection, but you may find it helpful to post the Arcanum links rather than just to reference them, as when you post a direct link to the page, or directly quote from it, it makes it easier for others to see the particular quote from Brandon that you are referring to.

For example, with your reference to the San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020), you can highlight the entry's name in Arcanum and post it here, as shown in this sentence, or click share and then paste, like this https://wob.coppermind.net/events/431/#e14009, or click copy, go to your post, make a quote box, and post it in, as shown below:

Quote

Questioner

You've mentioned before that Odium is scared of Harmony. Is it only because of the raw power of the two Shards? Or is he scared of what Harmony represents? (Meaning the possibility of merging two Shards.) Was he aware that this was possible?

Brandon Sanderson

He, on one level, was aware. But it was more of awareness of this as a possibility. It actually happening is part of what has him scared. It's the idea of the two merging Shards both being more powerful and finding a harmony. (Which Sazed is actually having way more trouble doing than Odium realizes.) Those two things really have Odium scared. Because, partially, this means he has to find a way to destroy or split Harmony without taking up a second Shard himself, because Odium knows if he takes up a second Shard, terrible things will happen. And so he doesn't want to do that. (Terrible things as he views them.) And so he's gotta find a way to split this apart, or somehow otherwise defeat.

Now, the more he learns about Sazed's actual state, the less afraid he'll probably be. But that's an advantage that Sazed has right now.

San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020)

Either way, I think you might find this helpful, and it will ease others in following your quote chain. Hope you're having a good one!

If I may (and your music sounds fantastic!) I have a prompt:

Someone is exploring another dimension, a strange and different world, and they are slowly coming closer and closer towards something alien and eldritch, the world, itself already alien, seeming to become more and more bizarre as though they were pressing against the edge of some strange creature's dreams ....

11 minutes ago, Requiem17 said:

I wish Wax had felt the need to mention which color Harmonium spiked off the graph for! 

I'm a fan of Autonomy godmetal being able to split Harmony godmetal... Makes a lot of sense intent-wise. But if that's the case what is Wax going to do with a flake of Lerasium? Eat it??? Would he become a Mistborn in book 4?? That seems like too wild a thing to see. 

New guess is fusion metal that then is more explosive than ever-- which connects back to the explosion back of the book blurb & our thinking Set is sneaking in something in order to create a massive bomb in Elendel. 

Who wants to bet that Wax's reinforced box is not going to survive the next couple of chapters?

6 minutes ago, Johnny Silverlight said:

"Today, he’d have given almost anything to be someone else. MeLaan, wearing that fetching body—they were all fetching, honestly—led him through the entry hall to a small private sitting room on the other side."

Uh, one of MeLaan's body is a dog, Wayne. Are you trying to tell us something?......

But of course! What body would be better at playing fetch?

On 10/18/2022 at 0:18 AM, Requiem17 said:

My instinct was the same, but unfortunately I have to obsess over it with these weekly chapters ugh. 

Reddi says "this time" implying that someone has come to Wayne looking for money before. We don't yet know if Wayne picked up gambling or investing in the wrong things, he may have. It seems out of character because he's never seemed interested in making more money. If this is the track Brandon is taking Wayne's character though, Wayne has really imploded his life. The only good thing going for him now that MeLaan and he are over is the constable job with Marasi, and that has signs of being over soon as she's wishing for the next big adventure/challenge. 

I really hope it's the opposite though. Allriandre returning the money and we get some closure there makes the most sense as to why he's running. If Sophie why is Wayne running away? It'd have to be a strings-attached sort of sum. Not sure what the strings could be.

I get the feeling - and I probably should do a reread of the series to be sure - that Wayne isn't very comfortable having money, and prefers to give it away or invest it in other people. Thus having money he gave to someone else returning to him is likely a disturbing prospect - if I'm right, he thought of what he was doing as charity, but now its unwanted and unexpectedly returning to him.

52 minutes ago, robardin said:

Totally agree, I thought the exact same thing down to the investments involved (Sophie Tarcsel).

I also wondered if Alliriandre was somehow involved (the girl whose father Wayne killed long ago in the Roughs, who he was seen visiting and pressing money onto in Shadows of Self). 

Now that would be interesting! This story looks like it might have a deep exploration of Wayne as a character, and his unhealthy dynamic with her would certainly be an arc to close before the end of the book, and thus the end of that era. Either with her ultimately forgiving him, or both just moving on, if she is involved somehow that would certainly add an interesting dynamic to the situation.

My own tin-foil hat theory is that the Set was founded by Shallan, and as a direct attack against the Ghostbloods.

(Not sure if this counts as a spoiler or not, but the rest is based on Thaidakar's identity:

Everyone is assuming Wayne owes people money, but I think, for two reasons, that the situation is actually reversed.

The reasons:

1. Previously, Wayne invested money with and in the work of Sophi Tarcsel, who is the equivalent of Nikola Tesla's daughter, and who is likely doing very well in this modern age
2. Dramatic irony - nowhere does Wayne say these people are after him due to him owing them anything, and everyone else is just assuming that he does because of his past habits

Wayne doesn't owe people money, people are trying to track Wayne down to give him money, as a return on investments. This also might explain why he hasn't been as big a drain on Marasi in terms of metal nowadays, but that is a side issue. The bowler hat people, contrary of the beliefs of those around Wayne, are there to give him money due to his financial backing of Sophi Tarcsel's business.

So I'm rewatching Warehouse 13, and one of the items they introduced - and criminally underused, though the show on the whole is great for all that they forget to Tesla people (I mean, its a lightning firing stun gun! Why wouldn't you use that at every opportunity?! And its a stun gun! If you're holding someone at gun point and they have an artefact they are threatening to use, unless the artefact is going to go off when exposed to the Tesla, hit them with lightning! But I digress ...) - was the Tesla grenade, and that got me thinking.

What if in Era 4, there is a Nalthian equivalent of the Primer Cube technology, and Awakeners can pre-program a set of commands into a store of Breaths to throw at the enemy, taking control of the environment around them. Imagine, you are a soldier in a bunker, when suddenly a strange device lands nearby. You pause as the colours disappear from the environment, and suddenly your own clothes start attacking you. Or the corpses of your fallen friends suddenly rise up and attack. Imagine the Awakening grenade landing in the area right after a conventional grenade - a commander would have to deal with troops they sent in suddenly being killed and turned into Lifeless against them.

([Edit] Now I'm imagining a story beginning with a soldier, either a new recruit or a seasoned veteran, heading into an area with their squad, friends they've known for years, when suddenly there is an explosion and most of the squad is killed. As they lie there, still clinging to life, they see the Awakening grenade tossed nearby, and watch, badly wounded, as their friends suddenly rise up, and possibly begin attacking the remaining survivors, while they can only watch.)

I have been summoned! 

([Editing this post down a lot - I turned my reply into a bit of an essay! Keeping only the relevant bits)

On 8/27/2022 at 7:32 PM, Trutharchivist said:

But here's an interesting point I thought of lately, relating to my first one: to my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe I should tag @Ixthos for that...), Paul said that gentiles don't have to convert to Judaism to be followers of Jesus. Does that not mean that if Jews convert to Christianity, they're still obliged to the original rules of Judaism? Because throughout history, Jewish converts abandoned all practices of Judaism in favour of Christianity.

My answer isn't very well organized, sorry. Hope I didn't come off as attacking anyone - generally I'm in for religious discussion, there are threads for that though and we can elaborate more there.

There is certainly a lot that can be said on this topic  I actually have a book given to me on my birthday a few years back I need to get back to reading but it covered a lot of the general beliefs of Messianic Jews. I'm also friends with one Messianic Jewess in particular, so I'll ask her more directly on this soon, but I believe scripture is fairly clear on this, and the general gist I've gotten on this from those I know in person and those I've heard about and from, but basically a Jewish Christian is still a Jew and still lives the life of a Jew, but one who has seen the fulfilment of the promise and is awaiting Yeshua's return, and so they see both the value of the traditions but also understands how they apply to Yeshua and what He has done and fulfilled, and so they still in general - as all people are different, but these are general practises - keep Kosher, honour the Shabbat, and circumcise their males at the appropriate time after birth, but don't require this of their believing Gentile Brothers and Sisters. Others may try to push them one way or another - there are Gentle Christians who feel Jews need to become Gentiles now, a deeply flawed ironic reversal, and one just as false as Paul's opponents' claims - but either way in Christ we are all one, but being one doesn't make us identical, and Jews are free to be Jews, and Gentiles free to be Gentiles, but all are still the Church, which must be made of both - and the Jewish people are by no means removed from the LORD's plans.

(There is a lot more to say on this, and this post has already become rather long, mainly because I rambled on a semi-relevant section at the start, but I'll end this section with one particular note - I personally don't think all the interpretations of Kosher laws are actually being applied correctly and may actually be being applied overzealously, but ultimately this, as Paul noted, is a matter of conscience, as is honouring one day in the week or all days. I do think that cheese and meat should be fine to eat together though - if Abraham offered them together to G-d when He visited, it probably is fine for us to eat too )

7 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

If you were to give a Threnody Shade a couple hundred Breaths, would it's nature be greatly effected since it would be comprised mostly of Endowment's Investiture rather than Ambition's? If you gave it thousands instead, would it potentially gain greater sapience, maybe even return it to full cognition, similar to a Radiant Spren?

I suppose that depends on whether Shades can receive Breath - they might not be able to, being Cognitive Shadows, with their physical presence being similar to that of a spren pulled partially into the physical realm. If you could, I would say it seems likely it would change them, though they would probably become more like Nightblood mentally than a Radiant spren, as Nightblood is a "robot spren," and so their minds would likely become affected by the nature of the Breaths they received, and possibly the command if it isn't just transferred. Of course, we also know Investiture interferes with Investiture, so their "bodies" might reject an attempt to infuse the Breath into them.

Of course, if Breath could be transferred, and assuming Shades are similar to Mistwraiths in that their is a "blockage" between the Cognitive component and their physical presence, it might be possible to use the Breath like a Hemalurgic Blessing and "restore" the Shades mind to it, if it still retains one. In that case even one Breath might be enough to induce sapience, restoring the lost memories and personality to the Shade.

7 minutes ago, HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES said:

Wait.... Yknow when you just took something for granted and it sudenly turns out wrong...

We've all been there  don't get discouraged - this is exactly the right sort of topic to theorise about here. Keep going! It is a cool theory even if I disagree with it 

5 hours ago, HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES said:

So, as of now it is know that there are 16 shards which make up adonalsiums spiritual presence and 4 dawnshards that make up it's cognative presence.It seems like a logical jump that there would be some sort of shard that makes up adonalsiums physical presence.  There would probably be 2 as so far we have worked with sqaring shard numbers and 256 physical shards seems like overkill. Are there any wobs pretaining to this.

As I recall the Shards are present in all three realms, it is just that their power is mostly in the Spiritual Realm and the concept underlying them is manifest in the Cognitive and Physical Realm, while the Dawnshards are not what I would label as primarily Cognitive - as each was associated with tearing apart a Spiritual Realm being, and Change is a good description of the idea underlying at least two shards (Ruin and Cultivation, and arguably Endowment and - as an antithesis - Preservation), it doesn't seem accurate to think of them as Cognitive Realm elements, or at least not purely Cognitive Realm elements anymore than the Shards are. Why do you suppose the Dawnshards are primarily Cognitive Realm related?