Shardlet

I don't know. The voice of the death cries is so distinct from the voice of the people we have directly heard speak them (and seemingly detatched from their surroundings like people, etc.) that it feels more like in the moment of their death something else takes hold of their body and speaks out. Their spiritual and cognitive aspects are separated from their body and something else steps in briefly to send a message.

There is part of Harmony invested in Scadrial since Ruin and Preservation were both invested in Scadrial and Harmony has clearly not withdrawn that investiture. However, there is no indication that I have seen that Harmony has made an additional investiture since the joining of Ruin and Preservation. IIRC, the change in the mist in the trilogy was not a corrucption by Ruin, but rather a default state for the mists to increase snapping. Everyone that died went through the snapping process, but didn't survive. Those that did survive had allomantic abilities. Hence, most nobility were not affected by the changed mist because most of the allomancers among the noibility had already been discovered because of their beatings and other methods of intentional snapping. I don't recall any evidence that Ruin corrupted the mist at all. They are two different things. But, obviously the shards and their constituent intents must necessarily have been a part of Adonalsium. Otherwise, how could Adonalsium split thus? The power of all the shard is the same power. That power however is filtered through the governing intent of the shard, the intent and personality of the holder of the shard, and the spiritual, cognitive, and physical environment (i.e., the planet) where the power is used. For Adonalsium, the filter is different since it comprises a full range of intents. Point being, if at shattering Adonalsium could be unmingled along the lines it was, it likely could have been done so intentional. Since we don't know what the process of shattering/splintering is and we also don't know what the process of unmingling is, I think this is a very premature argument. Which was part of my point in my response. I think we should avoid rejecting ideas outright based upon speculation with a limited evidenciary basis. I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. In the end, you may very well be right. But I have qualms with such assured statements with little or no evidence to back them up. I agree. I neglected this important aspect of Harmony's condition. But, I also don't think that this speaks against anything I submitted (nor does it speak against anything you have offered either). Exactly. This is precisely why I think that there is plenty of room for disagreement and discussion on this topic.

My bad. I did not realize there was more than one RPG.

For this question, since it is directly related to the RPG, it may be best to ask it on the RPG site. To get there, simply click the tab near the top of any 17S page that says Mistborn RPG. That will probably be your best resource.

Hi Tracie. Welcome to 17th Shard. Glad to have you with us.

For Scadrian investiture to be changed from a bit of Ruin and a bit of Preservation, Harmony would have had to withdraw that investiture and give a new investiture. The same goes for the magic systems. Simply the presence of a different Shard does not a new magic system make. Again, Harmony would have had to given a new investiture for a new magic system to occur. Clearly that has not happened since we still have the three metallic arts which we know and love. As for the mists, in the trilogy there was only one mist. The closest we saw to another mist (that I can recall) is the smoke form of Ruin that Vin and Elend saw at the well. As to the two mists in AoL, both of these mists were obviously emitted by Harmony since Vin burned up all the old mists in her transformation. However we do not know (or really have any evidence) that one mist was produced using just Ruin and another with just Preservation. Although it seems that at least one of the mists acts and functions similar to the trilogy mist, we don't really know its nature or purpose. I personally suspect that a combination of the two mists is part of the new snapping mechanism set up by Harmony, but that is purely speculative. Your rationale about the splitability of Harmony into Ruin and Preservation is a bit of a nonstarter for me. Brandon has said that it would take a lot of effort to split them. Saying that because they can be separated into discrete shards therefore they are separate shards is a bit like saying that Adonalsium isn't a single construction because it could be split into unmingled Ruin, Preservation, Endowment, etc. It sounds the same to me. Would it be easier to split Harmony into Ruin and Preservation than Adonalsium into the 16 shards? Sure. But it would also be easier to split purple play-doh into blue and red play-doh than to split brown into 5 different colors (perhaps not the best analogy, but I think it illustrates the point). As far as balance goes, we obviously don't have enough information yet to understand Harmony's intent. But, Harmony's desire for balance could be readily attributed in ways other than balancing Ruin and Preservation. Consider, Sazed has held Ruin and Preservation for about 300 years now. While it is hard to say how that specific span of time applies to the strength of a shard's intent over it's holder, to my way of thinking that is not terribly long. Add to this, Sazed has a rather strong self-will. He comes off meek, but he rather firmly goes against what pretty much everyone else tells him he should be doing. I think this means that Sazed's intent is presently dominant over Harmony's. To me the obvious alternative interpretation of Harmony's desire for balanced action is that he now essentially occupies the position of a god yet he does not consider himself to be such. He could manifest himself in more deliberate and apparent ways in order to bring people to his side, as it were. However, he allows people to develop their own beliefs and make their choices accordingly. He desires to work towards his goals (whatever they may be) while avoiding exerting too strong an influence over other people and their choices. Even with Wax (a Pathian) he is very careful to not give him too much direct intervention and assistance even though Wax seeks it directly. If he manifests too strongly he basically raising a flag saying that this camp over here has my favor. This, in effect, offers a compulsion of sorts to people to choose a certain way. Sazed was never keen on compelling people to make a choice any certain way. Under this understanding, balance refers to theological balance. Now, I am not saying that anybody's theories or ideas are wrong or off-base. My point is that there are more than one plausible and reasonable interpretations to the information we have so far. I don't know which is right. To my way of thinking, the above makes the most sense. But, that is just my opinion.

I think you are right Kurk. I think you would also have a difficult time ordering it from the states since the books are out of print here. That means they are super expensive on most sites. I think there is (or is going to be) an omnibus edition of the the four Alcatraz books published in the UK.

I think the Heralds play a far greater role than being Odium's punching bag in the interim between desolations. I think they play a lynchpin role in fighting Odium's forces during the desolations. Also, this is the Everstorm, the final desolation, that is coming. I'm not sure that the Heralds would go to damnation again unless humanity ultimately lost in the Everstorm. I think the idea of Dalinar taking up Honor is compelling. There is of course (presumably) much work that would need to be done in gathering all the splinters of Honor to effect a reforming. But, Dalinar becoming a Herald and Dalinar eventually taking up Honor are not mutually exclusive. GreyPilgrim: I see the potential for Dalinar to eat it in the first 5 books also. But, I don't see anything to indicate this as any kind of certain. Here's to optimism. I don't see anything of cosmeric import that has happened in either of the Sel books. Since FjorDor and AonDor are both subsets of the same magic, I don't see the rebirth of Elantris as being a victory of particularly cosmeric significance. Dominion and Devotion are both still splintered and when we left off of Elantris and Emperor's Soul, the people don't seem to be particularly shardically aware. I also don't see any particular effect of cosmeric imbalance. To be sure, Hoid believes that things are going to hell in a handbasket because of Odium. And Honor seemed concerned by Odium's actions and goals. But, even that seems more to me to be a 'this guy has got to be stopped or he is going to take over everything' kind of thing. I don't deny the possiblility that there could be a cosmeric imbalance that will be detrimental to the entire cosmere. I just haven't seen any real indication of it yet.

I don't know how direct the communication between Honor and the Heralds and the KR was. I doubt such communication was commonplace. Your point about Kalak not consulting before throwing in the towel suggests to me that even the Heralds didn't call up Honor to get instructions or to consult. This further suggests to me a greater unlikelyhood that the KR had any direct means of communicating with Honor. The death cry in the OP strikes me to be more of a lament spoken at a god rather than to a god. A prayer at best.

I like aspects of it. I think it would be cool if some Heralds reclaimed their positions (they have had several thousand years off now). But I think it would be better if all nine did not. I am beginning to think that Dalinar is being groomed to become a new Herald rather than a Radiant. He is a great leader, after all. His honor is legendary and his men love and revere him. I think he would be an excellent choice for a Herald. However, I would hate it if after 10 volumes, the only resolution is that Odium is now bound again in full by the Oathpact. I think there needs to an ultimate and determinate resolution for Roshar where Odium is beaten and can trouble Roshar no longer. I'm not sure that he should die though. He is is just too good of an adversary for the cosmere as a whole to be destroyed at our first introduction (series-wise) to him.

Upvote for the Hoid-based expletive.

So, I was looking pop over to Brandon's site from 17S and I noticed that I did not see a readily apparent link. I thought that perhaps 17S (being the official BS fansite) should have a link in the tabs (e.g., News, Forums, Gallery, Chat, etc.) that brought us to Brandon's site (especially since his new site has a beautiful link to bring people here). I did see that on the about page there are a couple of links to pages on Brandon's site, but nothing to the main page. What say ye?

The rub is, we don't know anything really about the nature of the Heralds except that when they die they go to Damnation until the time of the next desolation. We don't know anything about their abilities. And, we have seen no indication so far that they are bonded with a spren. This is one of the aspects of WoR I am most looking forward to. I am thirsty for more info on the Heralds.

There is no clearly established tie (that I know of) between shardblades and plate to Shards of Adonalsium (yet). A shardbearer of course is one who wields or wears a shardblade and/or shardplate. I personally theorize (http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3713-theory-the-origin-nature-and-purpose-of-shardblades/'>here) that shardblades are made with a voluntary splinter (a piece of a Shard) of Honor and/or Cultivation. This would tie shardblades to Shards of Adonalsium. I am less certain of how to apply such a relationship to plate. As to the shared usage of the term "shard" I suspect there is a connection since I don't see any particular aspects or characteristics of shardblades or shardplate that would result in the use of the term "shard" to describe them.

I see it different in view of the 'Sazed would drop Harmony rather than Ruin and Preservation if he died' http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3981-is-harmony-a-new-shard/?p=63123'>quote. I know many look at it differently. I was mostly clarifying my earlier post. It is important to note, I think, that Harmony has more raw power than any of the other Shards since it is a combined Shard (to my way of thinking).

Sounds plausible to me that the shardblades and plates are created using dawnshards. It doesn't necessarily jive with my personal theory, but it is also not necessarily opposed to it either. If it has been discussed previously, it hasn't really been talked about in the last 4 months.

Hoid doesn't hold any shards. The part you quoted says Sazed holds two shards which are Ruin and Preservation as shown in Mistborn and AoL. However, these two shards are joined together into a new shard which Sazed calls Harmony. Hence 12 shards and 12 conciousnesses rather than 13 shards and 12 conciousnesses.

Perhaps, but the power source of each Shard are all the same. The systems are different as a result of the holder of the shard, the governing intent of the shard, and an interaction with the planet. The power itself is the same. This whole thread is obviously massively speculatory, but I think you are making a distinction where one doesn't need to be made. You may of course be right. But, also consider that we know little about the actual nature of 'burning' metals. We do know the metal isn't destroyed per se, but, rather, it is changed and the metal is ultimately restored in some form. The fact that the amount of the metal swallowed can be sensed suggests a special interaction between the allomancer and the metal to begin with. To me, it is not that big of a step to suggest that this connection could reslut int the breath being conducted into the body of the allomancer rather than into the ether. But, again, that is just my way of thinking.

No apologies necessary. I appreciate your input.

I hope so. That would prevent the appearance from becoming stagnant as well as to highlight the most recent release(s).

Thanks Meg. Shallan does refer to them as symbolheads, but BS once favored calling them truthspren but later http://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/1a3fj0/discussion_of_the_week_shadesmar_truthspren/'>referred to them as cryptics. This is the term I use and the reason I use it. You are, of course, absolutely welcome to edit the document in any way you like according to personal preferences or ease and effectiveness of use. Thank you for the suggestion though. I consider this an active document and am totally willing to make amendments and adjustments to it to correct errors or to provide general enhancements.

Why not just store the juiced-up breath in your body in the same manner you would store any other breath you have?

Yeah, it was new to me too. A nice Easter egg for me.

Welcome Ashandarei. I have not read any of the Wheel of Time, but I have read (and reread) all of Sanderson's other stuff. Glad to have you with us.

I would have answered, but I noticed that both Windrunner and Kurkistan already answered this in the Ultimate List of Questions thread.