Quick Fix Game 62: He Who Arises In Might

[danex he/him]

5 minutes ago, JNV said:

Hi Im a smith son of feanor I was goin to give Kasimir a shield but fi theyre Finwe that wont really help so who wants it also I know two isnt enough to actually do regression but maybe double roles are just sons of feanor psosibly perhaps if so thatd make me feel better about life the univrse and everyrthing cause Im already at the point where I want everyone dead except me and thats usually the point I get at when its late game honestly I think I overestimated both my brains ability to think and my lifes ability to give me chunks of time to use my brains limited thinking juice so yeah

The issue Im running into right now is most of the people pinging my evildar dont make sense as Melkor or even as evil honestly and I dont trust anyone enough to really say I wont vote them and I dont really suspect anyone enough to really say I will and maybe its the conversion bit of it but I really dont know and of the people who havent calimed anything really Id say Matrims more likely to be Melkor just by ostensibly seeming normal but thats also a horrible reason to vote someone so if you want to vote me out go ahead just who wants the shield 

 

translation because omg use punctuation it makes it so hard to read your posts

 

Quote

Hi, I'm a smith son of Feanor. I was going to give Kasimir a shield but if they're Finwe that won't really help, so who wants it? also, I know two isn't enough to actually do regression, but maybe double roles are just sons of Feanor, possibly, perhaps. if so that'd make me feel better about life the universe and everything cause I'm already at the point where I want everyone dead except me, and that's usually the point I get at when it's late game. honestly, I think I overestimated both my brain's ability to think and my life's ability to give me chunks of time to use my brain's limited thinking juice. so yeah.

The issue I'm running into right now is most of the people pinging my evildar don't make sense as Melkor, or even as evil honestly. and I don't trust anyone enough to really say I won't vote them and I don't really suspect anyone enough to really say I will, and maybe it's the conversion bit of it but I really don't know any of the people who haven't claimed anything. really I'd say Matrims is more likely to be Melkor just by ostensibly seeming normal, but that's also a horrible reason to vote someone, so if you want to vote me out go ahead. just who wants the shield?

 

[Mat he/him]

16 minutes ago, dannnnnnex said:

i do have immediate and strong suspicion of araris
just didn't explicitly say so   Edit: well i kinda did say so, i pointed out messenger!melkor!araris as a possibility
didn't feel it was necessary, as I had already stated that i'd find another messenger suspicious

i'm still debating switching my vote to them.
i like my symph vote but the fact that we still have no feanor counterclaim is a pretty big weakness in the Melkor!Symph theory
but the Converted!symph theory also has merit

It didn't show in your interactions with them :P.

Also until this exact second I thought Converted!Symph was your only angle for this. Wasn't that your reasoning you used when you voted them? Melkor!Symph I don't think ever made sense with no counterclaim.

4 minutes ago, dannnnnnex said:

translation because omg use punctuation it makes it so hard to read your posts

Ah yes, dannnnnnex, he who best grammar and punctuation on the Shard.  

Edit; Also I didn't realize the VC was that bad. Yikes. If I'm consolidating it'd be on TUN or Devo but I'd really rather it be on Araris :3 or I could start a Dannnex train and see if it goes  

Edited September 7, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

19 minutes ago, JNV said:

Hi Im a smith son of feanor

What did you do C1? Did you give anyone a shield?

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

1 minute ago, dannnnnnex said:

 

translation because omg use punctuation it makes it so hard to read your posts

 

 

Thank you xD

8 minutes ago, JNV said:

Hi, I'm a smith son of Feanor. I was going to give Kasimir a shield but if they're Finwe that won't really help, so who wants it? also, I know two isn't enough to actually do regression, but maybe double roles are just sons of Feanor, possibly, perhaps. if so that'd make me feel better about life the universe and everything cause I'm already at the point where I want everyone dead except me, and that's usually the point I get at when it's late game. honestly, I think I overestimated both my brain's ability to think and my life's ability to give me chunks of time to use my brain's limited thinking juice. so yeah.

The issue I'm running into right now is most of the people pinging my evildar don't make sense as Melkor, or even as evil honestly. and I don't trust anyone enough to really say I won't vote them and I don't really suspect anyone enough to really say I will, and maybe it's the conversion bit of it but I really don't know any of the people who haven't claimed anything. really I'd say Matrims is more likely to be Melkor just by ostensibly seeming normal, but that's also a horrible reason to vote someone, so if you want to vote me out go ahead. just who wants the shield?

Well, I was planning on voting JNV this cycle but now I've changed my mind (guess that's my thing this game ). 

Well, there's clear role overlap. I don't think it's as simple as clearing every role. Even so, I doubt there's a Smith/Son of Feanor/Melkor, so you're off my suspect list for now.

Going back to my reads list, I guess right now the most likely elim is Devo. I feel like they've been "out of sight, out of mind". A lot of their C1 play was causal comments that didn't do much to contribute to the conversation. The slight shift in gameplay from last game seems intentional enough (and they seem like a shrewd enough player) that they would change their elim plan to appear different.

[JNV]

Just now, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

What did you do C1? Did you give anyone a shield?

I gave mysyelf a shield and in hindsight that wasnt the best of decisions gamewise but I was kinda just thinking in terms of action utility there 

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

1 minute ago, Shining Silhouette said:

Well, there's clear role overlap. I don't think it's as simple as clearing every role. Even so, I doubt there's a Smith/Son of Feanor/Melkor, so you're off my suspect list for now.

Well it would be a Melkor Son of Feanor, we just need to make sure JNV gives a shield to someone who isn't evil and doesn't die.

[danex he/him]

for the sake of consolidation, and because i'm reasonably suspicious of both of them, Bookworm, Araris

[Conquestor he/him]

Yay! Another Son of Feanor double role! Although, not one of the ones I would've figured for a double role mechanics wise. It fits great thematically though. This again makes it so hard to choose between you and Araris, but because I think your claim would be less likely as Melkor, I think I'll swing to Araris. JNV This will help a little with consolidating the vc because that is just terrible! We'll never catch Melkor like that! 

Also, @JNV I would happily take a shield, but I think you should give it to Kas since I feel pretty good about his Finwe claim. Even though they can't be protected, they can still use the shield to protect someone else, if they survive. Also, I hope everyone has their heirs set up so if they get an item and get killed the same cycle, at least that item will go to someone they trust. 

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

So you're voting Araris because you think he's lying about messenger, is a convert, or is a double M double role?

[danex he/him]

VC:
Araris (3): Mat, Danex, Conq
TUN (1): Symph
Mat (1): Araris,
Devo (2): Kas, Shining

Still too spread out for my liking
there's a lot of vote manip this game.
lot of people just not voting too.

less than 30 minutes left.

Edited September 7, 2022 by dannnnnnex

[Archer he/him]

I'm strongly against a Devo exe. Conq suggested I might be Malkor, so they can have two votes. 

Conq

[Kasimir he/him]

@Matrim's Dice I'm happy to be voted on for that  Genuinely think Finwe is just there to kill soak and die. Most of my votes this cycle were essentially meant to elicit more info, not necessarily to kill, but this would take us far afield again. Long story short there are some reasons I can't go into in thread and will probably bring with me to my grave, but I will also say I know of a solo Son of Feanor (on the Conq issue), so there's an incompatibility there, and that's what I mean by oddity. JNV's second Son claim also makes sense, and jives with JNV's attitude 

I do feel that C1 Devo was more aggressive than typical Evil Devo - I think trying to push a significant train with a case as opinionated as Devo's case on Archer was is not really a good thing for Melkor because it is attention-grabbing, especially if done at the last minute. One could fairly argue that Archer was unlikely to be in serious danger late last cycle when Devo pushed that train so late, so IDK. That, actively PMing (apparently inclusive of Archer) and requesting shields and thus seemingly trying to set herself up as a point of contact, don't seem to be the sort of attention an Elim seeks. The item limit is not great for Melkor, and Melkor would likely prefer Helms. Her reasoning for asking for shields is okay, if a bit flaky (only Feanor or Smiths can make Shields, true), but at the same time, how is it really supposed to ID a Smith/Feanor short of them willingly claiming to you, why should they do so, and if they realistically might not, why is this Village? So I leaned Village but also ???

What's making me rethink is actually C2 Devo, who is now returning to being a more measured/cautious commenter, and I'm curious about what's motivating that change in playstyle.

Edited to add:

Posting this because if I get NKed, I want to have done this meme first:

Spoiler

Edited to add 2:

@Archer Why is a Devo vote a bad idea? If you have a good reason, I'm happy to be persuaded off, though Eru knows who the hell I'll go to...

Edited September 7, 2022 by Kasimir

[Archer he/him]

Conq has left the chat. :(. hello, Mat

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, Archer said:

I'm strongly against a Devo exe. Conq suggested I might be Malkor, so they can have two votes. 

Conq

Seems like an overreaction but ok 

1 minute ago, Kasimir said:

Genuinely think Finwe is just there to kill soak and die.

What's making me rethink is actually C2 Devo, who is now returning to being a more measured/cautious commenter, and I'm curious about what's motivating that change in playstyle.

That’s a very Kas way to read your claimed role, whether accurate or not  Guess we’ll see.

What did you think of Shining’s point about Devo seeming to have made a conscious change from last game? I thought that was an interesting take.

Ninja’d by Archer. Hi :P.

[Archer he/him]

I'm just going to assume I'll be ninjad and this won't be a double post. Kas, I don't see why Devo would knife their potential ally of me and they'd then warn me my vote manip would fail, which limits the suspect pool. I think they're village gambiting, which is admittedly weird for them

thanks, Mat. Have you said hi to Silhouette? 

[Kasimir he/him]

2 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

What did you think of Shining’s point about Devo seeming to have made a conscious change from last game? I thought that was an interesting take.

This is why I kept mentioning I hesitate to make a committed/strong read of Devo off playstyle. I've GMed Evil Devo (well, played with once I think) enough to know that Devo is aware of her Elim playstyle and deliberately changes it to break patterns. TJ's Reckoner's game - she basically realised she seldom RPs as Evil (or something of that sort? Do not recall but it's in her doc) and actively set out to change it. I remember a comment to that effect in our Elim doc as well in Elan's MR. She does it both as a Villager and when Evil so while I'd still use playstyle as a starting point, I'm concerned about being too set on it.

Edit:

WAIT.

@Archer, she knifed you? Then how did your vote manip happen? What the hell?

Devo claimed no knife. This is sus.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Kasimir

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

Not that kind of knife, a fake one.

[Archer he/him]

Is knife a technical term? oop. I meant suggested I was sus C1, voted for me. When I'd been saying nice things about them

Sillyouette 

Mat

[Mat he/him]

5 minutes ago, Archer said:

thanks, Mat. Have you said hi to Silhouette? 

We have a PM, yes. I think I know what you’re doing with your votes but maybe I don’t :P.

edit: nope definitely don’t lol

Edited September 7, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[danex he/him]

welp

lets see how this plays out

bye

[Fifth Scholar he/him]

Glad you guys are having fun but it’s time to put a ribbon on this cycle and ship its victims off to Mandos. See y’all in an hour and a half  

[Fifth Scholar he/him]

“But the Teleri were unmoved by ought that he could say. They were grieved indeed at the going of their kinsfolk and long friends, but would rather dissuade them than aid them; and no ship would they lend, nor help in the building, against the will of the Valar. As for themselves, they desired now no other home but the strands of Eldamar, and no other lord than Olwe, prince of Alqualonde. And he had never lent ear to Morgoth, nor welcomed him to his land, and he trusted still that Ulmo and the other great among the Valar would redress the hurts of Morgoth, and that the night would pass yet to a new dawn.” - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion

More specific tribute to Araris and Conq's characters coming shortly. Figured y'all want results.  

---

Araris Valerian (Findor) was imprisoned! He was a Faithful Messenger!

Vote Count:

Araris (4)

Devo (2)

Mat (2)

TUN (1)

Conquestor (Sethyrn) was killed by the Corrupted! He was Maedhros the Noble (Son of Feanor)!

Cycle Three has begun! It will end in 23 hours' time on Wednesday 7 September at 10:00 PM EDT. Get in your votes and actions.

PMs are open. Please include me and @Elbereth in all of them. There is an exe today.

Good luck!

Player List:

1. The Unknown Novel as Aegnor, son of Finarfin

2. Araris Valerian as Findor, star-watcher and boat-builder Faithful Messenger

3. Matrim's Dice as TBD

4. Shining Silhouette as Sircyn, son of Tellyn

5. JNV as Menelir of the Sea and Sky, a concerned wanderer

6. Conquestor as Sethryn, son of the Rememberer Son of Feanor Noble

7. The Wandering Wizard as TBD Galadriel

8. da[n=??]ex as TBD

9. Devotary of Spontaneity as Nienna, a Vala committed to criminal justice reform

10. SymphonianBookworm as TBD

11. Archer as Tarell the Toothsayer

12. Kasimir as Tulkas the Valiant

Edited September 7, 2022 by Fifth Scholar

[The Unknown Order he/him]

@Devotary of Spontaneity
I've claimed to Kas, and don't care for anyone else to know my role. They can draw their own interpretations from that, but I'm not going to post in thread except under threat of death. 

@Matrim's Dice

Quote

Edit; Also I didn't realize the VC was that bad. Yikes. If I'm consolidating it'd be on TUN or Devo but I'd really rather it be on Araris :3 or I could start a Dannnex train and see if it goes

 Why were you planning on consolidating on me?

Quote

Seems like an overreaction but ok 

Hey, that's my line. 

[Mat he/him]

Hmm. I guess I was kinda right about what Archer was doing— I just thought I’d have to survive a coin flip. Or that I’d just die to Araris’ Melkor Cunning. But I figured the random switches at the end were to muddy the waters as for his votes.

I’ll probably take a look at Conq’s reads, but I think it’s possible he was killed simply because he was village read.

I’m worried about hyperfocusing on our Melkor PoE when the confirmation as to whether Melkor has another role was PAFOd, not shot down. There’s a certain amount of uncertainty there where I’m not confident enough in distro guessing to say. But Devo and TUN is a decent starting point for today.

TUN— you out of the lineup when it was 1-1-1-1 etc, because I v read Devo more than you, I was an option, and I didn’t want to kill Bookworm. Leaving you and JNV but then he claimed. I still preferred Araris though which is why I didn’t switch.

[Kasimir he/him]

Here's the raw votecount:

Quote

Araris (3): Conq, Danex, Mat
Mat (2): Archer, Araris
Devo (2): Shining, Kas
TUN (1): Symph

This is the votecount we received:

20 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Vote Count:

Araris (4)

Devo (2)

Mat (2)

TUN (1)

Nothing especially unusual - straightforwardly, someone got votejacked onto Araris to kill Araris, which incidentally means that Archer cannot be Melkor, though he could be a Convert.

Here's why:

C1: Votejack happened. Suppose Orator!Melkor - there's still only one role action, so Archer could not have votejacked and converted.
C2: Votejack happened. Suppose Orator!Melkor - Archer could not have votejacked and killed. Both are role actions. 

This leaves open a world in which: Melkor converts Archer C1, and then Melkor proceeds to kill C2, while Archer votejacks. But it's safe to say that Archer cannot be Melkor. (Someone tell me if there is a hole in this line of reasoning.)

@Matrim's Dice  Rather than the role, I suggest then that we look at actions that are or are not corroborated. Killing and conversion are both role actions, so if roles are used provably during a cycle where a Melkor kill (or convert I guess) takes place, we can whittle down a suspect pool from there.

Edited to add: To be clear, what I had in mind was 'get your suspect pool, use corroborated actions to remove people from it.' Reasoning first, then actions economy.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Kasimir