Quick Fix 63: Simple Rules

[Kasimir he/him]

2 minutes ago, Turtle said:

WAIT DO PMS LAST FOREVER OR IS IT JUST ONE CYCLE

As long as you've opened one, it lasts until one of you is dead.

[Turtle]

…oops

[Kasimir he/him]

7 minutes ago, Turtle said:

…oops

?

[Turtle]

8 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

?

i assumed the pms were cycle by cycle, for some reason, and have assumed that since the start of the game ._.

oh also abt the nulls thing, here’s a v game i played on MU where i did the same nulls thing: 

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/37325

quite proud of this game i hammered the final wolf

edit: just iso me if you want to read through the game, the first couple of pages are almost solely cremposts

Edited November 10, 2022 by Turtle
changed the emoji to an emoticon, hopefully I GIVE UP

[Kasimir he/him]

13 minutes ago, Turtle said:

oh also abt the nulls thing, here’s a v game i played on MU where i did the same nulls thing: 

Eh, I'm already fairly convinced it's just a playstyle/approach difference. My depressed reads list is definitely a me thing so I get it that these things happen ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Better reads to V-read you anyway. [Edited to add: Meant reasons here. Am tired >>]

13 minutes ago, Turtle said:

quite proud of this game i hammered the final wolf

Nice work!

But damn, reminds me of why I have a strong distaste for MU. We just don't vibe, I guess. One day I'll take back my RP filthy casual rep for good  

Edited to add:

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Also something I feel I need to explain is how not putting in reasoning for things is something that pings my evildar (on everyone but illwei lmao) bc on my site it’s so common to do giant 15 quote walls with deep analysis on peoples votes and even on game mechanics, elim distribution, roleplay, whatever. Bc this site is so diffrient when it comes to post walls and apparently they’re an elim tell I’ve felt so lost as to how I should be doing this.

This made me laugh so hard though.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Kasimir

[Turtle]

3 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

This made me laugh so hard though.

I didnt know illwei even played on MU when i posted this lmao

[Kasimir he/him]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

There's no way in hell Turtle would CW on Turtle and I V-read Turtle

Sorry, I was tired - I meant Wiz. Other than that, this is fine. I've said this multiple times so I don't think it's that confusing but just in case  

[JNV]

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

-I moderately Evil-read @JNV. Honestly, this is a raw PoE thing at this point. But I've also laid out some of the reasons I think I'm still committed to E!JNV. I think JNV's C2 responses are tonally odd, and more consistent with an Elim perspective than a Village one. I do think JNV softwalks Bookwyrm at several points by lightly sussing him but never really committing to it despite going after other players in the same suspicion pool like Silho and Turtle. I still am haunted by JNV's nonreaction to Archer's JNV bait post. I am rather disturbed by what I consider to be a subtle Elim red flag in the emphasis on proof in a game that frankly almost never offers you utter certainty. It doesn't emerge from Villager fog of war. I think Book most clearly implicates JNV as his teammate.

Were at 5 1 so honestly I might be ok with this just be ready to re eval quick like where are you even going to go if everyone else is a strong village read rolewise weve got dust youve climed nothing fenweed but no doses used knife a tent and me but Im dying I probably should have passed the dust last cycle I kinda forgot that was a possibility so odds are were getting a violation next time and the only real way to buy an extra cycle is if xinoehp coems in clutch so yeah youve got one chance after I die good luck with that actually wait

@Matrim's Dice if everyone dies does everyone win 

In my head its between Turtle and Wizard out of process of elimination but the thing thats bugging me is youre absolutely right about how them teamed with Bookwyrm doesnt make much sense but I think Turtle makes mroe sense cause your read on them is like entirely based on things theyve said not what theyve done and I have no thoughts in my head for reasons why I should trust them like with Wizard it was kinda 'hmm but I want to trust them' and yeah this isnt the best method for solving problems and yeah this vote is for vanity more than anything else but itd be nice to have a game where I vote every cycle so yeah 

Goodbye

[Mat he/him]

4 minutes ago, JNV said:

@Matrim's Dice if everyone dies does everyone win 

If that somehow happened, I think I’d call it a draw as all the elims are dead, but the elims also technically have parity. So yes, but everyone also would lose :P.

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Worth noting that Wiz has JNV/Bookwyrm in highest tier. @The Wandering Wizard - aware you explained later, but am doing a sequential readthrough, so why? Possible E points, but not feeling this. I think Wiz is more a salting Elim than a ballsy Elim. Half a Village point.

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

@The Wandering Wizard Specifically, why did you convince yourself Wiz and JNV were Village early on? What was your reasoning?

 

Sorry for getting back to you late. My head is currently pounding at about 40 beats per minute. 

Well for JNV I generally get a tonal thing about them being evil, so I tried to suppress it. But after my reread after their post on C2 and I will admit a rather flimsy idea got me thinking about E!JNV.

Bookwyrm I had convinced myself that he was trying to jump into the thread with the joke. It felt off, but I get lots of weird evil pings from people C1 and so like with JNV I decided to ignore it and put them barely above null. But I was trying only three tiers this game so they got put up as possibly belonging there. 

I feel like reads, especially from C1 are going to shift, pretty fast once you hit C2 since by then you have a better grasp on the style the other players are using in the game. 

[Kasimir he/him]

7 hours ago, JNV said:

Were at 5 1 so honestly I might be ok with this just be ready to re eval quick like where are you even going to go if everyone else is a strong village read rolewise weve got dust youve climed nothing fenweed but no doses used knife a tent and me but Im dying I probably should have passed the dust last cycle I kinda forgot that was a possibility so odds are were getting a violation next time and the only real way to buy an extra cycle is if xinoehp coems in clutch so yeah youve got one chance after I die good luck with that actually wait

I go to Turtle? This shouldn't even be a question - the strong Village read is an indicator of overall read strength, not relative/associated credence. It's no accident I went from Ash > Xino > Wiz > Turtle > you when listing my conclusions from my re-read. I think it's intellectually dishonest for me to put Turtle as a Light Village read or a Null+ at this point because Turtle looks good enough on my re-read I'm happy putting them in the Moderate Village tier. But whenever you re-evaluate, there are always two options: you can throw everything out the window and start again, or you can move on and then revise the read of least strength in your set.

Barring reason to think I'm so drastically wrong about the gamestate that I'd need to revise on Ash or Xino, I think it's fairly reasonable to bracket those top reads and just revise Turtle as the lowest of my current read strengths. If you want me to translate it into credence language, I'm a 0.85 on Ash, 0.8 on Xino, 0.75 on Wiz, 0.7 on Turtle, so the logical revision step is Turtle if you flip Village. It's just that it's kind of ridiculous for me to turn a 0.7 credence into a Light Village belief at this point - that's still fairly strong.

Why are we getting a violation next time? If you are Village, you flip and there is no Violation, meaning we only have to worry about the NK. Wiz has also claimed silver dust. Do you think he is lying? If he is lying, why are you voting Turtle?

7 hours ago, JNV said:

I think Turtle makes mroe sense cause your read on them is like entirely based on things theyve said not what theyve done

Isn't this the point of this game though? This is a semi-regular roleslite game. A lot of things can't be proven based off actions, and given Wiz has claimed silver dust, I'm approaching you and him and Turtle the exact same way I'd approach players in a normal, regular-only game: by reading posts and votes. A significant amount of my Ash Village read is based off what he's said and voted.

But there's also the bit I don't really understand, which is that the line between saying and doing is a lot more thin than your take on Turtle seems to warrant. 

Turtle panicking at C1 EoD can be regarded as something that was 'said', but it was a constant stream of confused questions that felt genuine, in a cycle where: if we propose a two-Elim team, i.e. a team that cannot afford to lose a member C1, and that would've left Book as solo Elim for the rest of the game! - then Book being absent doesn't make sense. In that same world, given end cycle volatility with Silho and Archer and myself hopping on and off Turtle, does E!Turtle stay put and refuse to jump on TUN, even though self-pres is NAI and they wouldn't have lost serious Village credit for this? Does E!Turtle hold their nerve rather than panicking and going for the guaranteed save?

Well, sure. I suppose there's residual uncertainty attached - Turtle could be an Elim with nerves of steel, still trying to go for the Archer ML. But the two player team context, the fact Book felt secure enough not to be there, the fact this would have left Book alone to solo, something that should give Book's partner some pause, and the fact that Turtle didn't seem to care that much about self-pres despite volatility - I think the better explanation of this behaviour is V!Turtle.

If you want to dismiss everything Turtle asked at C1 EoD as being what was said, then what did Turtle do? Simple: they held their vote on Archer. They didn't jump onto TUN despite the whole thread doing so, and despite the fact they could be plausibly endangered because votes were moving so fast. Maybe that's not decisively Village looking, but that still deserves moderate Village credit, in my eyes.

The other place where I think we're about what Turtle said is C2, and that's Turtle claiming the roleblock a minute before rollover. It was a very natural and late claim, and I don't buy than an Elim just claims roleblock without thinking about the consequences, which is that they will be expected to use the roleblock to help the Village subsequently, reducing their operational freedom. Now, you could say that this is Turtle saying this to gain trust, and the ability to make the kill without being watched, since they can always just make the kill and claim to have roleblocked a player. But there's an associated trade-off, right? If Turtle claims to have roleblocked a player and actually puts in the kill, they end up softclearing the player. You could argue the fact this was a single roleblock charge means E!Turtle let themselves off the hook, but then again, what is the purpose of the claim then, since if they failed to block the kill, they wouldn't have gained Village credit anyway? You could also argue Turtle meant to suggest RBing Bookwyrm in order to make their teammate look better, but I was the one pushing for a potential Bookwyrm roleblock and a you train. Turtle's natural target was you, not Bookwyrm. That doesn't really fit either.

I will also agree that it looks bad for Turtle that they didn't think to roleblock anyone C2 despite making that claim. And with Turtle missing out the tent rules, it's entirely plausible Turtle didn't notice that players can't pass items if they're being roleblocked, and that this was the weakness in their plan. This is at least consistent with Turtle claiming to have roleblocked you last cycle. This could plausibly be because they withheld the kill

Final question: in your view, does E!Turtle simply refuse to vote on C3 for trust, knowing that they have a 40% chance of dying? You yourself argued this was unlikely Elim behaviour and that you didn't expect Archer to go through with it. Turtle did that. Does that make them more V or E in your eyes? I think a slice of players would consider that shading into gamethrowing territory if Turtle was Evil, because Turtle wasn't going to attract suspicion from voting on a holdout train since that was the plan all along.

In summation: it's not that I think Turtle can't be Evil. I could definitely see places where this might be true. But in summation and overall, you still come out as being far more Evil on analysis. I respect that your post can't really engage with the premise that you are Evil because that's a non-starter for you, but I do think that even having made this post all about Turtle, I can still point out that:

Quote

-I still do not find it plausible that V!JNV doesn't make a single comment whatsoever on a very suspicious and baity Archer post that came nearly two hours before, especially when I exploded about it in thread.

-Bookwyrm's behaviour suggests that you are his teammate, rather than Turtle. He's comfortable with a Turtle-endangering EoD, he tried a BYE BYE distancing vote that didn't read like misdirection, and he held you as a mild Elim read and half-walked it back, and suggested a Turtle/Xino team and voted on Xino. He refused to self-pres on you until late in the cycle, when self-pres wasn't an option any longer, and then that vote was so heavily telegraphed it feels like a backfired attempt at distancing.

-You cut Bookwyrm more slack than you do other players for whom you have similar objections in your reads. I think this is more natural of an Elim trying to distance from a teammate but also not committing to go after them, especially since C2 was a cycle where Bookwyrm attracted a significant amount of attention. 

-I think your C3 posts are tonally bad and appear to emerge from an Elim mindset. I don't think a tone of such fatalism is consistent with being a Villager, and I don't think a Villager immediately just assumes they will die and they can't prove themselves to be Village, at your level of experience. I accept that your point about being suspected for inactivity and that being NAI could be V!JNV, but I think it is at least consistent with E!JNV being annoyed about being suspected for something NAI.

-I don't think a Villager is as keen on asserting they can't prove themselves to be Village. A Villager deals with uncertainty, and I think the fact you're talking about proof in this context is E!indicative. No one here, not even Ash, is 'proven' Village. There are E!Ash worlds - I just don't think they are very likely or plausible.

-I don't understand your C3 unwillingness to vote Turtle when all your theorised Evil teams involve Turtle. I don't take this to be as E!indicative as the other points, but I do think that your favoured CW was Wiz, a player declared immune to Violation, and the fact that you avoided Turtle points to a certain amount of reads gerrymandering to get to that outcome.

If I am wrong, then I will go to Turtle, depending as well on new, incoming information.

...If I'm still alive >>

Edited to add:

A final point - perhaps it says a lot about my Elim style, which, fair enough. But I wouldn't leave a teammate who was a new player largely on his own to fend for himself C2 and C3 when he was attracting a lot of suspicion. I'd be talking him through what to do. I'll grant this reasoning failed with Archivist in LG90, who made that suspicious Turtle vote. But I also think that the circumstances were different: it's a five man Evil team in that game, and a two man (we're running with this assumption) team here, meaning the Elims can't afford to throw players away like that. Book was also attracting a lot of suspicion. His behaviour points to an inactive or low activity teammate, and given Turtle's thread presence, I still think that Book would have received more support from Turtle. The more likely teammate is you.

Edited to add 2:

7 hours ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

Sorry for getting back to you late. My head is currently pounding at about 40 beats per minute. 

np, take care!

Edited November 11, 2022 by Kasimir

[Turtle]

guysguysguys this is rlly important

Spoiler

edit: this is pickles the cat :)))

Edited November 11, 2022 by Turtle

[Kasimir he/him]

...I'm willing to be talked into going for Turtle, just saying :eyes:

Edited to add: Oof, unfortunate timing.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Kasimir

[Turtle]

Just now, Kasimir said:

...I'm willing to be talked into going for Turtle, just saying :eyes:

Edited to add: Oof, unfortunate timing.

…but cat :(((

i mean we’re at 5 v 1 rn so that would be fine for us right?

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Turtle said:

…but cat :(((

i mean we’re at 5 v 1 rn so that would be fine for us right?

I'm not saying this as a matter of suspecting you. I'm still very sold on E!JNV.

This is to contextualise everything that has happened so far in the thread as an invitation to check my reasoning. What I said C2 with Silho stands: I genuinely dislike MLing Villagers when at all possible. I dislike it when LG89 Illweis happen (also AG8 Illweis I guess), but I do have a tendency to deathtunnel when it's unchecked and Illwei and I bring out the worst in each other these days when we interact, unfortunately.

I've been re-reading your E and V game but I don't have a strong sense other than my current V!Turtle and E!JNV read which I still hold on to.

Ultimately I suppose, JNV is enough of a bro that I don't want to lynch them without giving them an out to talk me into it, and I don't know that I should be dead committed to an E!JNV lynch despite beating the JNV Delenda Est wardrums since C3.

At this point, I'm not terribly convinced and I still believe JNV is a more likely partner for Bookwyrm.

And that is a very cute cat. I now have 4k cat pictures and 4k dog pictures on my Google Drive  

[Turtle]

what’s jnvs kill meta?

[Kasimir he/him]

2 hours ago, Turtle said:

what’s jnvs kill meta?

They're not wrong they said no to going for me early in LG84, your game. But I also kinda feel the kill makes more sense as a Bookwyrm kill because I legit don't know how you don't anticipate that I'd be Lurched, and that means this requires a teammate who was low activity enough Bookwyrm got to call the shot.

But I'll pull what I found of JNV's kill meta from LG84. Keep in mind this is the first time we've seen E!JNV, IIRC. So this is the first time we see their kill meta, and it could have shifted. I'll do a LG89 dive in a bit if I would, but you were teammates so you should remember this.

1. Doesn't like killing me - consistent with LG89, and what they said earlier.

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So Experience is voting Archer right now not a great kill dont think TJs posted yet tentative no revise when they get on same with Orlok Bort mentioned joke? suspicion of me and Kasimir not great option and honestly I kinda dont want to kill Kasimir theyre cool

2. C1 JNV doesn't like suspicion kills.

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Also yeah sure Ill submit the kill also I definitely dont think killing someone who suspects us is a good idea do you have any ideas

3. Purple is shadow, FYI. JNV wants what I'd call a misdirection kill - wanted to kill an Archer voter or a Teod (faction) player to make it seem as though the Archer train was pure (it wasn't) or that the faction doc was pure (it wasn't.) 

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So who should we kill tonight? 
No new people no suspicious people and honestly probably a Teod person or an Archer voter to enforce the purity of it all

4. Is actually fine with killing me if I suspect and push their teammate, Shadow.

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And Kas who is in my hood chat looked up that game and read it, so he’s well aware too

If you think theyll go for you we can kill them Id just rather cultivate that possibly you could always try for an openwolf tactic later in the game for funsies

5. See above:

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Shadow do you think you can cultivate Kasimir trust cause youre in the same empire and you did good points on Archer and such if so keep if not bullet time

Yes I’m pretty blatantly pocketing him XD and he noticed but it’s still working perfectly

Ok we keep them alive maybe kill Experience cause their plan to claim elim was both ignored and sussed by a suspicious person and known in the doc

Also down with killing a player who seemed somewhat V.

6. Expanded to anybody who was sussed by anyone - possible overlap as Xino was not widely sussed and generally kept under the radar C1?

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So I just looked at the player list mentally ticking off anyone who was suspected by anyone and we are left with the low info kills of Tani TJ which isnt bad per se but als oisnt great 

On one hand Experience is putting in a lot of effort in the Teod doc

On the other hand theyre barking up the wrong tree

7. Doesn't like low activity kills.

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Im going to tentatively put the kill in on Tani I feel bad for killing such a low active but honestly almost everyone came out of D1 with a bit of suspicion except for the people were trying to pocket so... 

8. Likes to stay off Village leads as long as they're wrong and can't re-evaluate. I was V!reading JNV sort of for part of C2 and pushing Silho, though I reversed course halfway through the cycle.

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I personally like to leave town leaders alive during the phase of leading people passionately into the wrong direction and kill them at the point where theyre wrong so they dont have time to reevaluate

9. Is fine with kill mindgames.

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Thinking about kill options definitely want to leave the pure vil doc untouched for  paranoia fodder definitely leaving Amanuensis and Kasimir for pocketing probably until it all goes south 

10. Fine with low info kills. I could've sworn they disliked those earlier...

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Thinking about doing a low info kill like thought earlier

My shortlist right now is Araris Tani TJ open to suggestions if that anonymous crow in the corner wants to say anything

11.

There's a very long segment I'm just not quoting where JNV strategises and agonises about which of Orlok or me to kill, worrying that we will be onto them. They settle for leaving me alive, figuring I will ML Baker for them. There's another segment where they regret leaving me alive afterwards.

12. This is from LG86, which I co-GMed. Coloured for your eyes. Doesn't want to kill those who suspect them. Doesn't want to kill sources of controversy, i.e. players who can be MLed.

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Matrim and illwei have suspected me so not great kills Steeldancers a sorce of controversy same with Alvron everyone else seems fair game unless theyve died early or something check that out Im going to sleep now see you tomorrow remember one of you is gen kill one of you is our kill glory greatest murder is victoire huzzah kill yay night night

13. Wants to let Village do their own MLs, suggests role kills. Anyone who hasn't been suspicious or suspected them.

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So you jus twasted the thing thats fine not a big deal also for the gen kiill theres no real action scanning potential so just go for people we want dead not people who they want  dead htey can do that on their own time so probably not Steeldancer go with whatever you want Strikers a good option I guess and anyone whos not suspicious or has suspected us is good possibly go for Arrais for having vote manip role  or Matrim for same

14. Is fine with killing a loud player who looks good due to thread events, doesn't want to go into the quiets because of teammate present.

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Who do we wanna kill?

Dare we try and outsmart the GM by guessing the distro to determine who’s more likely to have the protect blessing?

we already know more than the village, why not?

Maybe Matrim cause they look really good off the xinoehp flip

Yeah Mat is probably being protected since most of the thread shares that opinion

We could go with the quiets but that runs into the problem of Turtle existing maybe go with the lower but still clean ish xinoehp voters 

15. They believe louder hits are better than quiets in this game at the beginning.

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Ideally wed hit the trusted people first cause later everyone agrees and then later hit the quiets that no one actually protects cause its a high security risk

16. Doesn't like to kill a suspected protected player, but doesn't see it as the end of the world.

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The issue is you exist so killing low actives gives you less space to hide and Im not really picky on Araris or Matrim its kinda a tossup and look at it this way if we hit someone protecteed thats one less protect to worry about and one less flip for them to work with though if we attack Matrim and they live we could argue for self target or osmething to fight accusations but yeah if we suspect protect then lean against

17. Toys with a misdirection kill but ultimately decides to hit a confirmed player.

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Thought on tonight’s NK target? We could go for Mat now maybe? 

Im thinkning leave the Shqueeves voters to preteend we have an evil in there we need to hide hmm I think Conquestor cause the general consensus is they cant be evil and for scan we should probably scan the people weve just commited to leaving alive so like pool of Matrim Kasimir Illwei possibly

18. Here, advocates for the opposite: it's ok to hit Conq despite Conq suspecting Stick - this can be played off as Elim indifference.

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Wouldnt killing Conquestor do the opposite though causel ike oh wow the evils arent afraid of proving Conquestor good which while not indicating correctness has a psychological effect on the other players to trust them cause ultimate credibility and implicate Sitck cause like you seem very aware of how Conqeustor thinks of you so it makes you seem less evil if the evils dont care about that and Ill go for Matrim I guess 

And that's about it.

I don't feel very enlightened from this, honestly  Ash is my NKA guy.

What I really take away:

1. I don't see the N2 kill on me making sense coming from you, Ash, Wiz. Wiz has been too on-the-ball with the rules to make this mistake, and after AG8, I can't see why Ash would go for me this way when Xino was likely to Lurch me. Xino only makes sense on a three man team, and I think we'd have lost last cycle if so, since you withheld your vote. In addition, protecting me doesn't make sense as a WGG play or WBG play of any flavour. I don't actually see it making sense coming from JNV either, which makes me think that JNV couldn't submit the kill and what we're seeing from N2 was driven by Bookwyrm's meta instead. I rule you out because we had to explain the tent rules to you, meaning I find it hard to see that you'd miss that Xino couldn't self-protect a second time.

2. JNV is correct that they are opposed to killing me early. They are fine with doing so once I get into gear in a game. In other words, I don't think I can rule out a C2 kill on me from a JNV team if I'm busy pushing JNV and have Bookwyrm as a null. But the C2 kill just doesn't make sense.

In what world is it not highly likely that Xino would Lurch between me and Ash, seeing as that Xino can't self-Lurch anyway?

3. Is fine with low info kills, toys with the idea of misdirection kills.

I don't see anything that really says that Xino and myself can't be JNV kills, but I think either way you slice it, the C2 kill was likely a Bookwyrm kill, and the only team I can envision who didn't say hol' up would be JNV, because JNV was too busy to tell Book that this is not a good idea.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Kasimir
made colours more friendly - sorry JNV, that's a searing green :P

[Mat he/him]

Bit under an hour left!

• JNV (5): Ashbringer, The Wandering Wizard, Kasimir, Turtle, xinoehp512
• Turtle (1): JNV

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Bit under an hour left!

• JNV (5): Ashbringer, The Wandering Wizard, Kasimir, Turtle, xinoehp512
• Turtle (1): JNV

How does vote tracking for this one feel, Mat?  Compared to C1?

[Mat he/him]

Just now, Kasimir said:

How does vote tracking for this one feel, Mat?  Compared to C1?

Spoiler

 

[Kasimir he/him]

14 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Spoiler

 

[Ashbringer he/him]

Ash be sleepy.

If it comes down to Wiz vs Turtle, Turtle may be more likely, but I do prefer JNV methinks.

[Kasimir he/him]

18 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Ash be sleepy.

If it comes down to Wiz vs Turtle, Turtle may be more likely, but I do prefer JNV methinks.

Eh, just experiencing doubt I suppose. Past Kas told me to stop rethinking so now I'm just chilling and memeing.

And writing in deep purple ink.

Edit: Oh hi, @Matrim's Dice, @Ashbringer, @Shining Silhouette, @Turtle. Suddenly such a popular thread  

Edited November 11, 2022 by Kasimir

[Mat he/him]

Spoiler

The cycle has ended! Stay tuned for rollover.

(Also, I just noticed that the clock on my computer is two minutes slow. Which is weird >> So if you've noticed that I've been a bit late, that's why :P. Fixed now though.)

[Mat he/him]

Cycle Five: Off Course

There was nothing worse than being off course in the Forests of Hell, Vinnie decided. Even if he knew roughly how to right their way, the thought of never finding the beaten path again was terrifying. His crew's escape from Wylir's suicide had sent them diagonally through the forest, and it was only due to his superb navigational skills that they stood any chance at all of finding their way.

Being lost was made worse by the fact that he wasn't sure how trustworthy the rest of the crewmembers were. Surely Wylir hadn't come alone-- had his guards dosed off purposely, giving him the chance to strike? Was one of the trusted veteran explorers biding their time to strike? It seemed so impossible.

Letting Silas take the lead, Vinnie dropped back, wanting to have whispered conversations with his crew. He found that a crew that talked to each other had a higher chance of survival than a crew who didn't, which made sense. Having someone at your back was irreplaceable. Jal was bringing up the rear, so he started there.

"So, what's your story?" he asked. "How'd you end up on this mission?"

Silence.

"I know it's been hard, but you can talk to me. I'm your crewleader! Nothing will happen to you, we found the traitor." The words sounded hollow, even to himself.

Again, silence. Jal's eyes pointed forward, giving no acknowledgement to Vinnie's presence. Then, quietly, "You're only talking to me to make peace."

Vinnie furrowed his brow. "Whatever do you mean?"

"You've heard the others. They think I was Wylir's accomplice. But I would never willfully attract Shades. I'm heir to my father's silver mining company. I'm loaded with silver dust. I hate the ghosts more than anyone here. So leave me alone." The sentences were said in a clipped manner, Jal's expression never changing. Vinnie was taken aback, but he took Jal for their word and moved back to the front. He wasn't in the mood for conversation, after that.

It wasn't long after that when conversation was rendered impossible by the underbrush, which seemed to exponentially grow in from all directions. Soon Vinnie was slashing vines and leaves out of the way with his knife, and their progress slowed to a halt. Maybe it was a good thing I only talked to Jal, he thought. I'm glad I was at the front when we entered the thicket.

Then, from behind them, a scream tore through the air. Vinnie turned as quickly as he could manage and backtracked through the brush, but it was dark enough and the leaves were thick enough that he had to be right on top of the fallen body to see who it was.

Jal. With a knife sticking out of their torso, one that gleamed of steel. It would do nothing to ward off Shades. His eyes widened. Had they been attacked by someone taking advantage of the situation, or were they the traitor, having stabbed themselves when no one was looking?

With a final gasping breath, Jal choked out a few words.

"It was... It..." Jal coughed. "...was..."

Vinnie knelt down. "It was who?" But Jal was gone. Vinnie cursed, putting his hands over his eyes.

"Uh, boss?" someone said. Vinnie looked up. "We should... probably get out of here." Vinnie wasn't sure who the man who had spoken was, but he knew that they harbored the largest silver knife of the group.

Becoming alert of how much Jal was bleeding, Vinnie nodded and stood. "Of course."

That was when a Shade appeared right behind the man with the big knife, and in a moment of irony, Vinnie knew it would do nothing to save him. So he ran. He ran like the coward he was, ran like the kind of man who couldn't save his own crew, hoping that when he slowed there would be still someone to lead.

---

JNV was executed! They were a Crewmember with Silver Dust!

Ashbringer was killed! He was a Crewmember who once held a Silver Knife!

Vote Count:

• JNV (5): Ashbringer, The Wandering Wizard, Kasimir, Turtle, xinoehp512
• Turtle (1): JNV

Cycle Five has begun, and will end in about 24 hours on Saturday, November 12th, at 10am PST.

A few things to remember:

• You may create a single 1-on-1 PM this turn. It must include both myself and Devo.
• There will be an execution this turn, with no vote minimum. Tied votes will be RNG'd.
• One action is allotted per turn, to those with the ability to take one.
• Failure to post will result in a 40% chance of death.
• Failure to vote will also result in a 40% chance of death.
• If a Shade is executed today, Violation will take effect.
• Refer to the rules doc for any further questions, or let myself or Devo know.

Player List:

Spoiler

1. @The Wandering Wizard - Jeffrey Jeffrey
2. Archer - Gale - Crewmember
3. @Kasimir - Silas Keen
4. @Turtle - Old Ben
5. The Unknown Novel - Mat Rims - Crewmember
6. The Bookwyrm - Wylir - Shade - Silver Dust
7. Ashbringer - Not Sure Who - Crewmember - Silver Knife
8. JNV - Jal - Crewmember - Silver Dust
9. Shining Silhouette - Jo - Crewmember - Fenweed Sap
10. @xinoehp512 - Onyx