Frustration's Firepower Index: Sel

[Frustration he/him]

Welcome to Frustration's Firepower Index, a collection of threads giving a comprehensive analysis of each Cosmere world's combat capabilities. This thread will focus on the world of Sel, as it appears in Elantris, Hope of Elantris, and Emperor's soul, with additional knowledge taken from Stormlight Archive and The Lost Metal.

 

Shards: Devotion and Dominion are splintered, and thus impotent. 0/4.5

 

Dawnshards: Sel has no known Dawnshards. 0/1

 

Defenses: Sel's cognitive realm is currently a storm of invested plasma that is very difficult to navigate, even for Hoid. With the only known perpendicularity being in Aerelon, though there is a second one. From there there are numerous rivers, mountains and seas to act as natural barriers. Sel also has stronger gravity than most cosmere worlds, weakening invading forces. 4/5.5

 

Offenses: The same plasma storm that prevents an invasion also prevents most Selish individuals from leaving. Additionally Selish magic in location dependent even on the same planet, though with what we see between the IRE and Shai, there are a few select groups that know how to bypass these restrictions. Their increased gravity compared to other planets makes it easier for them to invade, and with their teleportation powers, it is theoretically possible for them to skip the CR altogether and jump straight to other planets. .5/1

 

Natural Advantages: Sel has the highest population of any major shardworld, with only Roshar being able to challenge them.

Spoiler

wackyHair

What's the population of the shardworld's we've seen so far (even in very general terms, like one's much bigger than the others or something)?

Brandon Sanderson

Scadrial is certainly the least populated of the major shard worlds. Then Nalthis, I'd guess, followed by Roshar, and finally Sel--which likely has the largest population. I would have to look closely to see which is bigger between those last two.

Phantine

Does a population of about 100 million during The Final Empire (with 1-2 million in Luthadel), and around 15 million during Alloy of Law (with about 5 million in Elendel) seem right?

Brandon Sanderson

Have to RAFO this for now, for reasons I can't explain without giving spoilers.

Phantine

How about as far as Elend/Wax knows, at the beginning of their respective series?

Brandon Sanderson

Then those numbers, if they're off, are at least close.

faragorn

Interesting that Sel has such a large population, given that the actual numbers of soldiers shown seem to be quite small.

Brandon Sanderson

Let's just say that Opelon has an inflated opinion of its own size in relation to the rest of the world.

Footnote: The RAFO about the Scadrian population may be due to the existence of the Southerners, which had not been revealed as of this time.
/r/books AMA 2015 (June 8, 2015)

1/2

 

Armed Forces: Sel is home to Three large Empires, and dozens of smaller nations. There are too many factions to give consideration to every one, so I will try to focus on a smaller group of noteworthy nations. Arelon, Teod, Fjorden, The Rose Empire, and the IRE.

Arelon: Arelon's main fighting force is the Elantrians, who are taken from the natural population, and given incredible power. There are around 600 Elantrians at this time though that number will increase. Brandon has said that there is a limit to the number of Elantrians, however the books say that the population of Elantris was mostly Elantrians, so that number was likely in the tens of thousands. They have a large population as well, though they lack a formal military. They also have a lot of Seon's which are the most powerful form of communication currently known.

Teod: Teod maintains a small ground force, but their Navy is noted as being one of the best in Opelon, able to stand up to the Fjordel empire. They also have several Seons.

Fjorden: Fjorden on it's own has limited military power aside from Dakhor monks who have various abilities, notably increased strength, speed, teleportation, and the ability to manipulate other forms of investiture. However, they also have a few Seons, and influence over other countries, including Jindo with their Chayshan warriors, who have increased, speed strength and reflexes. And Hrovell with their potions. Additonally they have several Skaze, though whether they have the same functions as Seons is unknown.

The Rose Empire: The Rose Empire has a population in the millions, with a striker army, and a long lived Grand aristocracy. They also have several forgers, most importantly resealers, while also maintaining influence in Dzhamar which possesses bloodsealers, and Maipon which has forgers.

The IRE may be the most influential group here, they routinely travel between Sel and other worlds, have fabrial devices that can store investiture, and make Connection, and can pipe Dor to other worlds.

12/12

 

Economics and technology: Sel has a developed trade system, and has multiple ways to make any necessary resource. They have late middle ages to renaissance level weapons, but no gunpowder. 2/7.5

 

Logistics:

On world: Sel has multiple roads, caravan routes, and overseas shipping. They also possess multiple ways to make any material they need between Aon Shao, and Soulstamping. They also have skeletals who can run or row forever without rest or food. And with Aon Tia and Dakhor teleportation they can transport anything anywhere. 9.5/10

Off World: The Plasma storm makes moving materials or people through the Cognitive realm difficult. They also have skeletals, and Aons Shao, and Tia, along with soulstamping 2/3

 

Intelligence: Aon Shao, and Soulstamps can hide people, and objects. Aon Nae allows the user to see things far away. 4/10.5

Counterintelligence: Elantrians and Dakhor monks are impossible to imitate without powers. 2.5/9

 

Allies: Sel has no allies. 0/1

 

Notable uses of investiture: There are Aons for making barriers, fires, blasts of energy, viewing things at great distance, teleportation, and learning quickly. Elantrians can also sense other manipulations of the Dor, and possibly all investiture. Dakhor monks can(if they are given the ability) sense other investiture and manipulate it. Universal soulstamps can repair objects, and with bloodsealing they can raise most of their fallen soldiers to fight again. +4

 

Recommended strategies: Sel might just be the most powerful world analyzed thus far. Their population and magic make them a potent threat on both offense and defense. Any one of their important factions is a threat and a half to most other worlds. Figuring out safe ways off world, though the cognitive realm or through Aon tia, or Dakhor teleportation is the only thing holding them back.

 

Overall ranking: 41.5/67

 

As before thought, comments suggestions? I'm about to settle on a world ranking system, though if you have any thoughts that would be appreciated. And as before which world should I do next?

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Frustration

[RedBlue]

Nice analysis.

The only thing I have to add is that Autonomy appears to have already successfully seeded an Avatar there (Jaddeth). Difficult to say how much of a threat that is since we don’t have much info, but it’s a notable hole in Sel’s defences. 

[Isilel]

13 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

 

Armed Forces: Sel is home to Three large Empires, and dozens of smaller nations, so I will try to focus on a smaller group of noteworthy nations. Arelon, Teod, Fjorden, The Rose Empire, and the IRE.

Right, IMHO it is important to mention that their industrial base and military technology available to non-magical people were medieval when last seen. And mages are a small minority of this huge population. Also, a chance for world unity appears to be slimmer than on Roshar and Scadrial.

Also, didn't the pale man who marked Shai practice a form of magic that you didn't  include?

[Leuthie]

16 hours ago, RedBlue said:

Nice analysis.

The only thing I have to add is that Autonomy appears to have already successfully seeded an Avatar there (Jaddeth). Difficult to say how much of a threat that is since we don’t have much info, but it’s a notable hole in Sel’s defences. 

Where did Jaddeth being an Avatar of Autonomy come from? Direct WoB or theorycraft?

[Frustration he/him]

4 hours ago, Isilel said:

Right, IMHO it is important to mention that their industrial base and military technology available to non-magical people were medieval when last seen.

That is correct, and should be included.

4 hours ago, Isilel said:

Also, didn't the pale man who marked Shai practice a form of magic that you didn't  include?

I included bloodsealing

22 minutes ago, Leuthie said:

Where did Jaddeth being an Avatar of Autonomy come from? Direct WoB or theorycraft?

The recent spoiler stream implied it, but did not confirm.

[Leuthie]

9 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

The recent spoiler stream implied it, but did not confirm.

I would much rather Sel's Shard related issues be created by the free Investiture (Dor) gaining semblance of consciousness and taking on the ethos of the area they find themselves in. But I guess having an offworld Shard to contend with would actually add to that narrative rather than detract, so...

[RedBlue]

2 hours ago, Leuthie said:

Where did Jaddeth being an Avatar of Autonomy come from? Direct WoB or theorycraft?

Very heavily implied by recent spoiler stream. 
 

Makes me pretty excited for the eventual Elantris sequel 

[lacrossedeamon]

This should be revisited post TotES

Spoiler

With the reveal that Elantrians can now induct others into being Elantrians as well which could greatly expand their fighting force or be used as a bargaining chip to cause defections to their side. And at least one member of the Ire has smart spaceship.

 

[Why Kaladin?]

On 1/8/2023 at 0:18 AM, lacrossedeamon said:

This should be revisited post TotES

  Reveal hidden contents

With the reveal that Elantrians can now induct others into being Elantrians as well which could greatly expand their fighting force or be used as a bargaining chip to cause defections to their side. And at least one member of the Ire has smart spaceship.

 

I think the limit would still apply to the number of Elantrians. Though depending on what is required to induct one they could replenish their numbers rapidly. However, the Elantrians need a lot of training to be able to make the Aons well enough to be useful in combat so this would not necessarily be as big of an advantage as it would first seem.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 7/13/2023 at 5:31 PM, Why Kaladin? said:

I think the limit would still apply to the number of Elantrians. Though depending on what is required to induct one they could replenish their numbers rapidly. However, the Elantrians need a lot of training to be able to make the Aons well enough to be useful in combat so this would not necessarily be as big of an advantage as it would first seem.

TotES

Spoiler

Except they could train to make Aons before their Elantrians, meaning that "newly inducted" Elantrians would be battle ready.