Long Game 17: Heronfall

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

Adavantos, I'm not Luckat, but isn't it incredibly simple? PMs during the night phase are used for most communication - be it sensitive, or just discussing the actions of, and thoughts on, other players. Introducing a cipher in the day would be the equivalent of merely extending the time during which generic PMs can be used.

That said, there is an argument to be made that use of it in this manner is going against the spirit of the rules, if not the letter - Wyrm, Mods, do you have any thoughts on this?

Edited February 12, 2016 by OrlokTsubodai

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

I'd say there aren't a ton of opportunities where a code/cipher is necessary, but I think it can be useful in some ways. It's hard to give specific examples though, because it's hard to tell what will happen in these games. I was gonna try and set up a code that me, Kyne, PK, Water and Ada could use in MR11(the players who I at first thought were the good guys), to try and coordinate things without the eliminators knowing what was going on. I was gonna try and guess the traders(who I thought were the traders) codes and then spread them out so that we could each guess, and the eliminators wouldn't know who guessed their codes, so they wouldn't know who had their Aviar. I didn't go through with it, because Kynedath was the one who could've connected me to PK and Water, but it might have been helpful I think. I can't immediately see a bunch of uses for it at this point in the game, but if PM's go down, it could give a little bit of protection from the eliminators.

 

Anyways, the fact remains that luckat suggested this code first in MR11, when she was village aligned, so I'm not sure how you think it's suspicious. Or do you not really think it's suspicious as much as just that you don't think it's a good idea? I'm not exactly sure, because you imply you're suspicious of her because of the cipher thing, and then at the end of your post you say you retract your suspicion of her, but that your opinion of the cipher still stands.

 

LUNA, have you ever played any Mafia/Werewolves or anything like this before? I'm just curious.

 

Edit: ninja'd by Orlok.

 

Orlok, the cipher does take awhile to decode/encode, so I don't think it would be used as commonly as PM's can be used. So, I think what Adavantos is warning us about is that if players use this, the eliminators will know the two people using it are discussing something important/sensitive enough that they felt they should put it in code to hide it.

 

I'm pretty sure luckat got approval from some Mods about using it already. I think Wilson said something about it in the MR11 dead doc. I don't see why Wyrm would mind really, codes are awesome.   I think the only thing that's not allowed is using stuff that you didn't create to encode/decode messages, as that's not figuring it out for yourself or whatever. Luckat told me she made a thing that can encode/decode messages for herself, but that it's not allowed to share that with other people(similar to the situation with Dowanx' program that tracks activity in that he can use it and reveal the info, but he can't give the program to others since they didn't create it).

Edited February 12, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Amanuensis he/him]

Adavantos, I'm not Luckat, but isn't it incredibly simple? PMs during the night phase are used for most communication - be it sensitive, or just discussing the actions of, and thoughts on, other players. Introducing a cipher in the day would be the equivalent of merely extending the time during which generic PMs can be used.

I have never really understood the point in discussing anything privately unless the relevant information IS sensitive. It doesn't make much sense to me to keep your thoughts or suspicions a secret from the majority. While I agree that sometimes it's best to not let an eliminator know you're onto them until you build a case against them, I also believe that the game can not progress healthily unless everyone participates in open discussion.

EDIT FOR LOPEN. Yes, she first suggested it in MR11, but not openly. She brought it up in a PM, and I can see it making sense in that game because of how few people could be in PMs. In this scenario I just think it would do more harm than good, partly because I could see it affecting who the eliminators target (in a bad way) and that it could have an impact on genuine discussion

Edited February 12, 2016 by Adavantos

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Just so you know, I edited my previous post.

 

Ada, I think she didn't reveal it openly because she only gave it to me about an hour before you killed her, so she really didn't have a chance. We'd been discussing making a code of some kind so I could communicate with the players I PM'd, and so she made a pretty elaborate code specifically for us, and then also gave me the link to this cipher so I could use it with my other contacts.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Ada, I think she didn't reveal it openly because she only gave it to me about an hour before you killed her, so she really didn't have a chance. We'd been discussing making a code of some kind so I could communicate with the players I PM'd, and so she made a pretty elaborate code specifically for us, and then also gave me the link to this cipher so I could use it with my other contacts.

 

Way to make a guy feel guilty .

 

Anyway, thing with my suspicion of luckat that it was just a gut reaction, not to her specifically but to the business with the code and what she asked Wyrm. I recognize now that it wasn't based off her, necessarily, just my personal opinion and paranoia. Generally I believe that codes should not be obvious, and as I stated before, with Wyrm's clarification on his answer that is no longer a factor.

 

Just got word from my boss that I'll be going on a Mission relatively soon (can't say specific dates or anything, but I can say my activity will begin rapidly diminishing around Cycle 7 - assuming I'm still alive then - and I won't return until after the game is over.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Adavantos

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Ada, I can understand your concern about the dangers of using the cipher, as your arguments do have merit, and you bring up points that I hadn't really thought of. I would like to explain though that before luckat posted about the cipher, she asked me in our PM if I thought it was a good idea for her to spread the cipher around so more players could use it if they wanted to, and then she asked if she should just post explaining it, and I told her I thought it was a good idea so players could have that as a potential resource if they wanted/needed to use something like that. We even discussed that if only certain players were using them it would be obvious who we were talking to, so I suggested that maybe players could just ask yes or no questions, or something like that, with the codes, and then whoever was receiving the code could hide their response in their post somehow(I don't think it would be that difficult to get a "yes" or a "no" codeword in your post, since it could be anything really, from using one word a certain amount of times to mean "no" or using a certain phrase. It would be a lot easier to hide this kind of code than the codes from MR11, since those were selected by GM's, and were meant to be guessed at, so they weren't super easy like we could make them.). This way requires a small amount of prepping beforehand, but nothing major, since the question would be asked through the cipher(or, if players did use it like this, players could send one-way messages such as "I'm scanning Adavantos" and so it doesn't require a response, but the eliminators wouldn't know if it was a question or a statement, since they would know that no obvious response is coming). I got a little off track there, but the point I'm trying to make is that I suggested it was a good idea(and still think it was, since players can use it, even if they adapt it with another code like I suggested) that she should post about the cipher, so by casting suspicion on luckat for suggesting it, I feel like you're also casting suspicion on me(and I know I was only trying to help loyals with the cipher).

 

Anyways, codes and stuff aside, there's not anyone I feel has done anything super suspicious, so I'm just gonna leave my vote on Araris(who hasn't responded even though he's been on since I voted for him???), and I may not be on again before the Cycle ends.

[RippleGylf she/her]

Barteender, gimne nuther TCollims. Aint drunk. Swear on Cervivors bones.

 

*fumbles with tablet*

 

*hits send*

 

*sees new text*

 

Niter, this is your brother Mallory. Are you drunk?

 

No sersly. Just happi lol.

 

*send*

 

*takes another swig*

 

Where do you live then?

 

n a overstuffed dorm with losta spikies + wires.

 

Niter, I'm going to pick you up. You're at that bar, right? Stay where you are.

 

*drops tablet*

 

*can't reach*

 

*gives up*

 

Oh dear. Niter's drunk and about to have his head bitten off by his brother. I would not want to be him.

 

This is why Ripple's a teetotaler.

 

RP aside, the cipher is interesting, but I have concerns with the attention it would draw to the players using it. It is rather obvious who has to hide their information, and I think a traditional code hidden in a lot of text would be far more effective.

[LUNA]

LUNA, have you ever played any Mafia/Werewolves or anything like this before? I'm just curious.

 

yis I very much have played werewolf. And Avalon for that matter. Of course this is a very different way to play for me. I am fairly good at reading faces and figuring out people's tics but I can't exactly do that online haha 

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Hey guys, my college semester just started and things are a bit busy for me, so I'll do my best to catch up on what is going on this weekend and make some useful contribution, or at least say some things so you guys can get a better read on me.

[Elithanathile he/him]

So, if Ada's not going to be around, should we lynch him? There's always a chance he's an eliminator, and he won't be helping out the village if he's inactive. Of course, wait until he's actually gone first, but if he's an eliminator, we got one, and if he's a villager, then almost no loss. (Of course we'll miss you, Ada, but the character can die.)

[Amanuensis he/him]

So, if Ada's not going to be around, should we lynch him? There's always a chance he's an eliminator, and he won't be helping out the village if he's inactive. Of course, wait until he's actually gone first, but if he's an eliminator, we got one, and if he's a villager, then almost no loss. (Of course we'll miss you, Ada, but the character can die.)

 

I'm fine with that, so long as it's not any sooner (unless ya'll have a better reason to kill me by then). However I would recommend the leader put me up for the mission then so I can die of inactivity rather having you guys waste a lynch on a villager . How about we cross that bridge when we come to it, since it'll depend on whether or not the eliminators are close to overrunning us and a miss kill would cost us the game, as well as the fact that though I know my internet access will be significantly reduced, I won't know the true state of it until I'm out and about, so there is a minimal possibility that I'll still be active enough to help.

 

 

EDIT FOR VOTE + TALLY

 

Anamaximder(2): Clanky, Adavantos

Araris(1): Lopen

Clanky(1): Arraenae

STINK(1): Hellscythe

 

Anamax, can you please respond to Clanky and I, and provide some of your thoughts on the lynch and the game overall? I would really rather not lynch a player for something as small as a single post, and I promise to retract if you take the time to add your input into the game, but if not I'd rather remove a player who doesn't participate in the discussion than any that do and am willing to cast suspicion on myself if it means giving us more information to work with.

 

For your convenience:

 

So my best bet I've come up with for a vote then is Anamaximder, You haven't posted since the first cycle and all you did was vote for Arraenae and didn't even respond after she responded to your poke vote. However you have been posting other places on the shard.

 

Anamax I am suspicious of for calling the kettle black. Last two games he played (AG2 and QF12) I am pretty sure he came in and threw a baseless poke vote on Lopen. Him voting for Arraenae for doing the exact same thing seems hypocrtical to me.

 

 Posted by Arraenae on 07 February 2016 - 01:49 AM

Alexandrius Venturia downed a shot of whiskey and pointed at Arraenae.

Pretty fast attack on Ripple, don't 'ya think?

As I said, I don't trust anyone who comes to a bar and doesn't drink. You're fine though.

 

 That vote was purely RP based, because I needed to do something to establish Niter's personality. So, he has an unfounded suspicion of both Ripple and Dragonsight because they don't drink.    Hopefully what Niter thinks won't influence me too much.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Adavantos

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

I apologise for my lack of participation today - I had a gap year job interview yesterday, and have discovered the shard has now been blocked (along with a host of other sites) at school, in accordance with their new policy.

I don't have the time right now to balance my suspicions against each other, or consider them in depth, so I'd just like to offer that I'm looking at Ada so far this game with more than mild suspicion.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Every time I lynched Anamaximder for being inactive and not replying, Ada called me out on it. Now he does the same? Strange.

 

Stink. Sorry, but you've seemed very different this game.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

That's what I was thinking too. Also, I'd rather not lynch him so early this game. It seems like he's just a "oh, no good lynch target? Let's lynch Anamaximder then" player.

 

Edit: My first sentence refers to Ada, not STINK, although I agree STINK is playing fairly different this game.

Edited February 12, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[luckat she/her]

Ah, okay. So this boils down to me misunderstanding your intent. I thought you were suggesting it be used for sensitive information, not general communication. That being said, I don't really understand what it could be used other than for something like a Hacker informing a proxy that a player they scanned is a Traitor (which would defeat the purpose of a proxy in the first place), which is why I don't think its very wise. In regards for me being suspicious for it, I'll go ahead and acknowledge that in a second.

That statement was more of a product of paranoia than anything else. Issue is that I could see an eliminator doing something like that and wanted to point out the possibility while at the same time addressing a thought that crossed my mind while reading Wyrm's answer. I guess I should apologize if I insulted you; that post wasn't meant to be an attack on your character, I just saw things differently and wanted to see how you'd respond to the challenge.

It's not that you're necessarily my top "suspect." You just said things that I did not agree with because I could see how they could benefit the Traitors more than the village. If I had voted for you that would be me saying something along the lines of "you're wrong and I'm right" which I don't agree with. I just expressed my opinion on the matter and my concern that you might be an eliminator trying to disguise a suggestion that would harm us as something that would help. Considering it's only D2 and there was no lynch last cycle I don't have many leads to pursue, and certainly none that I feel strongly enough about to vote.

Assuming that information is accurate, that is very useful to know. Thank you. Besides LUNA, everyone here should know how I feel about lurkers. Of course, in the case of the players mentioned in this paragraph, the only one who is not habitually inactive is Ripple.

Once again I want to apologize if I insulted you. That was not my intent. I will admit it was wrong of me to expect anything of you. Though in a way I believe it was a necessary evil. I learn a lot more from players when I generate friction against them. Personally I don't find poke votes as useful as challenging them to see how they react. I also don't like voting for a player in a post where I address multiple people as it might make the others think they don't need to respond.

Might as well include a disclaimer with this: if I confront you for something it's never meant to be personal. I'm just trying to gather info the only way I can and in an environment where others can bear witness to the results.

My bad luckat =\ at the time I thought I was being clever catching something that other people might have overlooked. Knowing that I did not interpret Wyrm's answer correctly, I retract my suspicion of you. My opinion on the cipher still stands, though. Maybe it'd help me if you could suggest some things it could be used for besides passing sensitive information.

I’m sorry if I didn’t respond very well. I’ve been stressed about some RL stuff lately which is making it hard to focus on this game. I think Wyrm’s clarification kind of proves my point about how what you were suggesting would be a bad idea.

Like Orlok and Lopen have pointed out, the cipher can be used for a lot of different types of communications. It can be used to share scanning results and coordinate protection, yes, but it can also be used to roleclaim (which could be non-Specialist), provide an account of previous activities, explain plans, express suspicions, follow up on previous PMs, ask for clarification before sharing in the thread, really anything PMs are used for. The difficulty in using it does provide a deterrent to using it frivolously, but not everything that would be reasonable to share in code is worth killing for. I did say not to use it too much because I don’t want to destroy communication in the thread, but there are things it can be used for.

There are also uses that aren’t analogous to PMs. A Communication Specialist could send it to the writeup, and they can later reveal the keyword to roleclaim. Someone could post encrypted information, and then share the code with someone else to reveal to the thread later or reveal it right before they die. Then they can more easily share information with their death. It could also be used for some people to have a conversation in the thread, and then later they can prove what they actually said in that conversation.

Also, as a counterpoint to people using it showing that they have sensitive information, due to the format it would not be difficult for people who do not have information to share to just post a string of random letters which would be indistinguishable from actually using the code. For example: xjkhgeaolwinclahtnkciuecimwuysdfzg. That is actually one of the major reasons I have for sharing this publicly--anyone can use it or fake it, not just people who I know have information to share.

I agree a code that is more hidden is better, particularly for sensitive information. I hope anyone with the Hacker and Data Gathering roles set up codes like that to coordinate and share information. However, those codes cannot be used for everything. It would be hard to make a code with everyone you might want to contact in the future, especially if the Communications Expert dies early, while making a PM with a few words that could be used as keys with most people would not be as hard. The situations where this could be useful are by nature the more unpredictable ones, and I think a cipher is a good thing to have for if those situations come up.

EDIT FOR LOPEN. Yes, she first suggested it in MR11, but not openly. She brought it up in a PM, and I can see it making sense in that game because of how few people could be in PMs. In this scenario I just think it would do more harm than good, partly because I could see it affecting who the eliminators target (in a bad way) and that it could have an impact on genuine discussion

What Lopen said. I started toying with this idea during the AG, when due to unfortunate circumstances the seeking group didn’t have a very good code set up and we had no way to communicate with new targets of the scan. I ended up not mentioning it then because it took me a while to work out what would be allowed (my original idea of using infoencrypt was rejected), and by the time I had worked the idea out the village was just too inactive for it to be worth it and there wasn’t a way to set up communication between people who hadn’t previously had PMs. I wasn’t thinking about it at the very beginning of MR11 because I didn’t have a messenger and I wasn’t sure about using it in a game that was more pressed for time than a LG and I died right after really thinking about whether to use it. I’ve been hesitant about bringing it up because I know there are risks involved and I’ve been worried about someone reacting to me exactly how you are. However, I think having a cipher that anyone can use with minimal setup and can easily be faked as an option is a net benefit for the village.

[Amanuensis he/him]

I apologise for my lack of participation today - I had a gap year job interview yesterday, and have discovered the shard has now been blocked (along with a host of other sites) at school, in accordance with their new policy.

I don't have the time right now to balance my suspicions against each other, or consider them in depth, so I'd just like to offer that I'm looking at Ada so far this game with more than mild suspicion.

 

Suppose I can't really blame you. You're almost always suspicious of me when we play together

 

Every time I lynched Anamaximder for being inactive and not replying, Ada called me out on it. Now he does the same? Strange.

 

Stink. Sorry, but you've seemed very different this game.

 

I wish I could say more about this.

 

As for Stink, I would really rather him not be lynched, especially if it's for something like him finally taking these games more seriously.

 

EDIT BECAUSE OF  's

 

Also, I didn't realize the turn over was so close. I thought we still had a few hours left =\

Edited February 12, 2016 by Adavantos

[Wyrmhero he/him]

The turn is over! Writeup coming up much, much later today

[Arrae]

 

 

EDIT FOR VOTE + TALLY

 

Anamaximder(2): Clanky, Adavantos

Araris(1): Lopen

Clanky(1): Arraenae

STINK(1): Hellscythe

 

 

That sudden vote seems very suspicious. I repeat, Anamax has done exactly this for two games in a row, and has been found innocent two games in a row. Voting for someone for consistent behavior doesn't seem like a way to catch eliminators.

[phattemer]

Well, I missed that cycle. :/

[Wyrmhero he/him]

Night 2: Caves of Aluminium

In a place hidden away from the world, within a vault of aluminium within a vault of aluminium, the most important men and women in the world often gathered quietly together, deep within the bowels of the earth.

There were few security checks in the way; the act of being able to find the place was the first challenge. In the old days of The Final Empire, The Lord Ruler would have probably killed all the architects of the vault to stop the knowledge spreading. These days, things were much more civilised - Their memories were extracted into Copper, and then disposed of. Only they knew of its existence now, though somehow rumours had seeped into the world from who knew were.

The second challenge to overcome was sensing the imperfections in the aluminium, a few parts per million, and using that to open the doorway. Aluminium was, of course, Allomantically inert, and could not be affected by Ironpulls and Steelpushes. However, as the Inquisitors of old were able to use the minute levels of metal in the body to see, so too could they manipulate these fine grains to great effect through their use of compounding and duralumin. This was not a task that only they could do, but that was what the HISS system was designed to present.

The third challenge, though not strictly necessary, was to pick a time when no-one else was there. They did not gather often, and avoided one another whenever possible. Similarity breeds resentment, it was said, and that was certainly true of these ten. But at the same time, they could not be too hostile to one-another. They weren't enemies per se, more rivals. They were the only ones in the world similar to each other, and that was something to be cherished and respected. Healthy competition and showmanship dominated their interactions, casting aside all lesser mortals in their wake. But regardless, they did not relish spending time in each others' company.

Wurum Heron closed the door behind him with an almighty clang, the soft metal reverberating on the soft metal of its frame. The sounds carried up towards the shaft leading to the room, where the shocks would be absorbed and hidden away. He carried a torch, as there was no natural light, and even Tineyes required something to be able to see.

He made his way across the cold metal floor slowly, almost reverent. They were not religious people - Ironeyes did not scare them, and they did not follow Harmony's teachings, and thought little of the Silver - but there was something sacred about this place, the source of their powers.

In the centre of the room, a great rock jutted through the floor, fractured and broken crystalline patterns splaying out from its core in every direction. From these cracks, something grew that should not grow, a logical impossibility. Metal that lived, one might say.

Wurum Heron reached up to a bead and tore it from to fissure, careful not to use any of his powers nearby. The crystals were notoriously sensitive to the presence of Allomancy, and broke easily when put into contact with them. Collecting the metal bead with a pair of tweezers and stowing it away in an aluminium container in his suit pocket, he did the same with another bead, and then another, careful not to take more than his fair share. 

As he suspected they all must feel, he felt a pull of desire, to simply steal the rest and damage the reproduction cycle, to see if his rivals died out without their boon from the Shards. But, ultimately, he could not do such a thing. It would not be right, he felt, and if he failed they would turn on him within an instant.

And so, as he had done every other time after his harvest was complete, Wurum Heron left the room as it had been, and left the atium to flourish once again in the darkness of the underworld.
 

---

No-one was lynched!

IrulelikeSTINK (2): Miller Washington, Avis
Alexandrius Venturia (2): Count Banuir Reynaud, Clanky
Araris (1): Lopen
Clanky (1): Niter

Night 2 has begun! The planning phase will end on Saturday at 8PM, and the Night Turn will end on Sunday at 8PM.

The players on the mission will be selected by luckat this Turn. If I do not recieve a response via PM from her by 8PM on Saturday, then she will die instead.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Alvron

[luckat she/her]

So, I think it would be good to have a discussion about who should be on the mission. I’ll start off with a preliminary list. I believe Elkanah, Araris, Kynedath, Clanky, Silver Dragon, and I have volunteered to go on the mission, so that is a good place to start (although I haven’t really kept good notes for this, so I could be missing something). Since Elkanah went last time and Araris said he’s busy so it might be better not to depend on him for the mission for in case, I’m thinking of having the mission be Kynedath, Clanky, Silver Dragon, and luckat.

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on the topic?

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Yay, PM's! 

 

Anyways, I was thinking that Adavantos' vote on Anamaximder was pretty suspicious, since previously he's been against lynching Anamaximder, but mostly I was suspicious because he put his vote on him about 45 minutes before turn over, leaving him hardly any time to actually respond like he asks him to, but then he(Ada) posted and said he didn't realize that the Turn was gonna end so soon(in blue text), so I guess it was a little less suspicious than I first thought.

 

Luckat, that sounds fine to me I think.

[STINK he/him]

You did see Mailliw's vote on me, the one that was much closer to turnover than Ada's?

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Yeah, I saw it. 

 

So, why did you retract your vote from Mailliw?

[STINK he/him]

He made good points.