Long Game 22: Corenne al'Daishar

[Master Elodin]

That makes sense, but I don't want this to turn into a Winter. Changing my mind doesn't make me into an eliminator.

[AliasSheep]

That makes sense, but I don't want this to turn into a Winter. Changing my mind doesn't make me into an eliminator.

No, it doesn't.  It simply strikes me as odd how often you're changing your mind, and the patterns said changes follow.

[Seonid he/him]

Watching that exchange between Amaiya (Mailliw) and Mezal (Meta) has made me even more uncomfortable with this lynch. Mezal, you responded to the points I brought against you, and that allayed my fears about your alignment because village discussion didn't stifle as a result of your vote.

 

But watching the misrepresentations of both my comments and Amaiya's responses has me convinced that this lynch is being manipulated. The arguments against Sarah are the weakest I've seen in a Day 1 lynch since the Ripple Effect fiasco. And notwithstanding it all, Sarah is the lynch target. The discussion has trended in such a way that Sarah seems the most obvious lynch pick for even someone (like Orlok or myself) who is not convinced of Sarah's guilt, just because of the information that could be gained.

 

But I've gone back and looked over the votes. Kelend and Meta are both voting on Sarah because of the very first post. Neither of them have responded to Sarah's most recent post. Lomion and myself both voted on Sarah because we felt that it would bring the village the most information, even if we didn't think that Sarah deserved it. That's a cold-blooded calculation that I hate even having to make (part of the reason I'm doing this is because I feel uncomfortable making that calculation). I feel that my vote was justified at the time. But now I'm not so sure. Lomion did it shortly before she would be gone for the rest of the cycle - a reasonable choice then. Gladium was a pure bandwagon - there's no reasoning provided and no point to it.

 

At this point, I'm not biting. Something's wrong with this lynch - I'm not going to be a party to it. Gladium. He's the next best choice - his pure bandwagoning is something I want to put pressure on him for.

 

There's still an hour left in the cycle. I'll be on again before rollover to see how things stand, to break ties if I think they need to be broken, or to make a tie if I think that the village will be best served by a no-lynch after reading the discussion.

 

EDIT: Full disclosure, I removed this vote at 7:03. If that doesn't count as being removed, that's ok.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Seonid

[Master Elodin]

No, it doesn't. It simply strikes me as odd how often you're changing your mind, and the patterns said changes follow.

Patterns are good, except when they're forced. Whatever though, I have more pressing things to worry about. Like the fact that everyone is seemingly blindly trusting Elbereth, with people only protesting her Mayorness really quietly. Unfortunately I am guilty of this as well, so I will say this now so that everyone can know my opinion. I am very hesitant to trust Elbereth. More so than before because of the way her mayorness has gone unprotested. This is obviously a sign that the eliminators don't mind if she becomes Mayor. So, for all of you out there, don't blindly trust Elb when she becomes mayor.

EDIT: Thanks Winter. Even though it won't change anything, Elodin. I want the Servants of the Dark to know that I have faith in myself, because distrust is their ally and confusion their blade.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Master Elodin

[Young Bard he/him]

Haven't read beyond Page 9 because I'm in a rush. Might or might not be able to log on before rollover.

 

AliasSheep

 

EDIT: ThatTinyStrawMan. Has he posted since allegations went against him? I'm looking through quickly now.

Edited June 5, 2016 by The Young Bard

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

I think that you are right about Elodin's posts, sheep, but when I first read the posts I thought it was just paranoia on Elodin's part.  Having this pointed out, though, I think that ther is about a 15-25% chance that he is an eliminator.  It is enough tor raise suspicions, but not  enough to vote for him on.  I do think that you have a good reason for raising this suspicion on him, but along with posts earlier from you and my gut feeling, I think that I am going to vote sheep.

[Young Bard he/him]

Actually, reviewing posts, I'll change my votes back to Sheep. Sorry for the whiplash turnarounds, but I find him suspicious. Will explain when I get back. TinyStrawMan.

 

I think that places Sart and Sheep a tie, so someone resolve it one way or the other, please. You have three hours, I think.

[Straw he/him]

I have a contact who is a scanner. In my opinion we should Lynch Sart while my contact scans Sheep.

[Master Elodin]

I have a contact who is a scanner. In my opinion we should Lynch Sart while my contact scans Sheep.

Wow. Just wow. This is obviously a last-ditch attempt to save yourself. And, if I remember the rules correctly, an impossible one. Strawman .

[Straw he/him]

Heh. 3 way tie.

Edited June 5, 2016 by ThatTinyStrawMan

[AliasSheep]

I have a contact who is a scanner. In my opinion we should Lynch Sart while my contact scans Sheep.

How do you have a contact?

Edit:

I think that you are right about Elodin's posts, sheep, but when I first read the posts I thought it was just paranoia on Elodin's part. Having this pointed out, though, I think that ther is about a 15-25% chance that he is an eliminator. It is enough tor raise suspicions, but not enough to vote for him on. I do think that you have a good reason for raising this suspicion on him, but along with posts earlier from you and my gut feeling, I think that I am going to vote sheep.

If I understand correctly, you've discussed how you think Elodin is suspicious, and then voted for me. Which posts of mine make you suspicious of me?

Edited June 5, 2016 by AliasSheep

[Straw he/him]

There is one answer to this if I am good. Can you figure it out?

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

I have a contact who is a scanner. In my opinion we should Lynch Sart while my contact scans Sheep.

 

Strawman, nooooooo! There's not any PM's yet dude. :/ So either Strawman is a scanner or if he's a Darkfriend, one of his Darkfriend teammates is. Or I guess this could be a lie to make us not lynch him, but the lynch isn't even on him right now...

 

We've got about 40 minutes until the end of Day 1 I believe. Not 3 hours.

 

Elodin, I said your vote on Sheep was eliminatory because you did something similar in the first game you were evil. I said you and another player were suspicious for some reason or another(like I did with you and Sheep for voting on me sorta) and then you had a complete change of opinion and voted to lynch the player you were just agreeing with(similar to what you just did with Sheep). I'm moving my vote to Elodin. Sheep.

 

Here's what we can do. Let Strawman live for 3 Cycles. He will give us his scanned targets(which he chooses and tells no one of) and then we kill him to get accurate results(if he's village) or he'll turn up to be an evil and that's just as good or better. Anything else and he'd probably get converted by Padan Fain. Since he has a time limit for how long he can live, Padan Fain probably won't convert him.

 

Edit: Gamma, if you are a Warder/Channeler, do you start the game with a PM with your other half?

Edited June 5, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[STINK he/him]

So TSM is clearly trying to say he is either a Channeler or a Weaver. But eh, it's still a desperate move.

[Master Elodin]

Lopen, you just said that Strawman might be evil and then proposed keeping him alive for three cycles! What the storms?

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

If I understand correctly, you've discussed how you think Elodin is suspicious, and then voted for me. Which posts of mine make you suspicious of me?

Sorry for confusion, but I was trying to say that you are trying to make Elodin look more suspicious than he is.

[jaimeleecee she/her]

I believe this is up to date.. Let me know if I missed something

Lynch Votes

Sarah/Sart(5/6 with mayor): Keland, Mezal, Lomion, Gladium, Locke

Llewella/Sheep(3): Ruon, Phil Bill, Cubiks

Gladium/Strawman(6): Sarah, Birgitte, Bugsy, Ba'Alzamon, Cenn, Lorien

Trafalgar/DeathClutch(1): Tazrim

An-alline/phattemer(1): Eryn

Cenn/Seonid(1): Alain,

Ba'Alzaman/Elodin(2): Douza, Jak

Jak/Lopen(1): Llewella

Mezal/Meta(1): Amaiya

Mayoral Votes

Lomion/Elbereth(5): Amaiya, Gladium, Ruon, Lomion, Ba'Alzamon

Jak/Lopen(4): Jak, Sarah, Phil Bill, Cubiks

Mezal/Meta(2): Keland, Lorien

Tazrim/Hellscythe(1): Tazrim

Amaiya/Mailliw(2): Locke, Birgitte

Eryn/Nyali(1): M'Hael

Ba'Alzamon/Elodin (2): Lexaven, Ba'Alzamon

Edit:adding votes.

Edited June 5, 2016 by jaimeleecee

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

Much though I dislike doing so - and with my deepest apologies, I feel that the most productive end to today is to lynch Sart. Given how much of the day has revolved around players' views of the Sart lynch, I think that we would be wasting a great deal of information about motivations should we lynch Sheep or Strawman - and in my mind, that information is worth it, despite my utter lack of suspicion of Sart.

Edit: I think the vote count ignores Elbereth's double vote - so it would have been 5 for Sart, 5 for Strawman, and I think it's now 6 for Sart

Edited June 5, 2016 by OrlokTsubodai

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

27 minutes left in the Day!

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

Much though I dislike doing so - and with my deepest apologies, I feel that the most productive end to today is to lynch Sart. Given how much of the day has revolved around players' views of the Sart lynch, I think that we would be wasting a great deal of information about motivations should we lynch Sheep or Strawman - and in my mind, that information is worth it, despite my utter lack of suspicion of Sart.

Edit: I think the vote count ignores Elbereth's double vote - so it would have been 5 for Sart, 5 for Strawman, and I think it's now 6 for Sart

If you lack suspicion for Sart, then why vote for him? just curious.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Lopen, you just said that Strawman might be evil and then proposed keeping him alive for three cycles! What the storms?

 

He's just basically claimed scanner. If he's village, that means he's a scanner(unless he just did the stupidest thing that a villager could possibly do for no reason whatsoever, in which case kill him with a fury and I don't even care if it sounds mean). I'm waiting for word of Gamma about the PM with a Warder/Channeler, but I don't know about the possibility of starting out with more than one role. It's unlikely, imo, which would mean that Strawman is lying about being a scanner/knowing a scanner and is a Darkfriend.

 

IF he is a Darkfriend, then he'll have to keep up the illusion that he can scan players and we might possibly be able to glean information from that, plus the 3 Cycle time limit means we'll kill him eventually, which is a fair compromise imo, because there's the possibility that he's a village scanner.

 

Strawman, can you please claim your role right now? No more vague hints, you've already made too much confusion.

[AliasSheep]

Sorry for confusion, but I was trying to say that you are trying to make Elodin look more suspicious than he is.

Ah, that makes sense.  I disagree, of course, but thanks for clarifying.

[Conquestor he/him]

I think that Gladium(Straw) is evil because what he just said is impossible! I still don't think that Sarah(Sart) is evil and if you don't, then don't vote for him. I do think that Eryn(Nyali) is still an eliminator, but will have to pursue that a different time. I know that this is a lot of I think this and I think that, but it is the first cycle.

 

 Edit : Ninja'd by Rubik! 

Edited June 5, 2016 by Conquestor

[Elbereth she/her]

I'm here! I wasn't aware that I would have this free time, but I'm free until after rollover! So. Lots of things have happened, thus lots of things to say. (Sorry to people who dislike reading long posts. This is what happens when I don't have access for most of the day so I can't respond to things as they come along.)

Elbereth: Unsure about Elbereth. She could just not trust herself to make the right decisions. What makes me suspicious is something about this style feels similar to the style she used in QF15.

What? Like, seriously. You voted for me for Mayor. Which kind of implies that (for some unknown reason) you trust me. Not that you suspect me.

I'm confused.

As far as the Mayor thing goes, Lomion seems to have it in the bag. But, considering that I don't trust her much at all at this point (her last post was basically just filler about PM safety again), I'd like to offer up another candidate in Lorien.

Other thing about that that I forgot to say last night: I'm traveling. Things like that post are useful (at least, I hope they are), and I can write them without internet access and then post them later. I can't do that with suspicions. So this is my way of trying to contribute as best as I can even though I have less time/access than usual.

Also, it's filler to you, perhaps. It's not filler to players who weren't around when Kas was, or when discussions of PM safety took place. And obviously it's not something that everyone has learned, given the amount of openness in PMs in a game with PM spies. So I thought I'd lay out exactly why it's bad, as best I could. Hopefully it helped.

I'm sorry, but does no one else see Meta misrepresenting people this cycle? Not just me either? Something's up and there's no way you just failed to understand me and Seonid completely.

Maybe? I do think something has seemed somewhat... off. I'm not sure about that, though. He just doesn't seem as clear as usual, I guess. Usually he clarifies the situation, and I feel like he's not doing that as much as usual right now.

I'm going to put a vote behind Maill for the mayoralty - I think his arguments have largely been sound, I'm not inclined to trust Meta with any more influence right now, and I don't think giving it to Elb is going to pay dividends in terms of delivering additional scrutiny, or voting power for the village if she's not going to use it, as she has suggested.

Well, I'm not saying I wouldn't use it completely. I would certainly vote every cycle I was Mayor and use my power as I thought right. But I don't think I would use it effectively. Small distinction, perhaps, but it's there.

Not only this, but, in my mind, Elb is actually a little suspicious - she's been really helpful - in putting forward the village advice, but not in a way that necessarily implicates her with anyone - it's a lovely position whereby she gains trust without having to risk any links with potential teammates.

To be very clear, I don't think it's worth voting for her to be lynched for this, by any means, but on top of the reduced use for the role, it's enough for me to suggest she not be made mayor.

This is actually something I was going to bring up, although in the opposite direction. Because of the points made above about me doing more advice-giving than suspecting, I haven't put off anyone by accusing them or anyone they agree with. I think that might be a potential reason I've gotten so many votes, maybe. Because I haven't strongly accused anyone, so I'm safe to vote for, in a way? Not sure about that, but it's the only thing I can think of.

Onward to Elbereth (Lomion)! To be completely honest she is the player I am most suspicious of right now. One reason in particular I don’t want to mention yet, because if she does it again then I’ll be as close to certain of her evilness as I can be of anyone this early in the game. Don’t want to tell her what that is as it might discourage her from doing it again. I know that’s vague and would probably be better for me not to mention, but it’s always interesting seeing people’s reactions to vague things like that. Anyway, with this first post in particular, my relevant thoughts are… I agree that roleclaiming should be only done strategically, her use of “obviously” when talking about Gamma intentionally trying to make people paranoid about secret roles when she is the first person to bring it up suggests to me that either she is a secret role / trying to claim a secret role for when she’s not for some odd reason or that she is an eliminator trying to distract us with what ifs (Winter did it in MR12, which may or may not have been because of her alignment, but I personally feel there’s no point in discussing it beyond that everyone needs to be aware of the possibility and act accordingly), and that’s all for that.

Huh, okay. I'll be interested to find out what that is, then. I can't think of anything off of the top of my head, but then, I wouldn't be able to, would I?

Presuming you mean MR14 there, since she wasn't in MR12.

I think that at this point, I need to vote quickly or lose my chance.  I am going for Jak and I need to decide between two people for lynch.

Do you have any reason for that vote? Just curious.

I have a contact who is a scanner. In my opinion we should Lynch Sart while my contact scans Sheep.

There is one answer to this if I am good. Can you figure it out?

  

Well, obviously, you're trying to say you're a Channeller and your Warder is a Viewer. (Or you're a Warder and your Channeller is also a Viewer, but that seems decidedly unlikely.)

Alternatively, you're lying about having a contact (not realizing PMs haven't begun yet) and you yourself are a Viewer.

Alternatively, you're lying about the whole thing to save your own neck (or just for fun). There's precendent for that, in QF14.

I was going to vote for you, but I like Lopen's plan much better. Although if it is a contact and not just yourself who's the scanner, killing Strawman won't prove that the scanner is in fact a Villager. We'd have to wait two more cycles. That's five cycles of leaving an eliminator alive. Which is a little long, in my opinion.

For now, I think my vote will stay where it is. My reasons for voting Sart have not changed, and I'm not sure that Straw is a better candidate.

I'm going to write up a post of my opinions on every player now. May or may not finish before turnover, depending on how many people I have to respond to in thread. At least I'm able to post at all.

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

If you lack suspicion for Sart, then why vote for him? just curious.

Because in doing so we learn a great deal about other players - if he's guilty it casts light on those who defended him (and, for paranoia's sake, to some extent those who may have thrown him under the bus), and if not it removes unnecessary suspicion from those who might get unduly scrutinised for defending a suspect player.