Long Game 22: Corenne al'Daishar

[Young Bard he/him]

Oh. I screwed that one up big time, didn't I?

 

I'm going back to reread the parts of Day 1 I haven't read yet (from where about Page 8 was.) I'll put comprehensive thoughts down here once I'm done.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I fully realize I was one of the people saying this doesn't clear Meta and Wilson and somewhat defending Sart.

First, I still don't have Meta cleared, though I do trust Wilson more.

Second, I still stand by the opinion that that was a terrible reason for a lynch.

I honestly have no clue what the storms was happening all day. There was so much blatant following-the-leader and vote-hopping going on that I'm very confused.

[Elbereth she/her]

o.O That's... not what I was expecting. At all.

My reads from earlier, as promised (some of these I looked back at the posts, some I did not. You can probably tell the difference.):

Maill - Slight trust, based on the thing about being truthful/honest this game. That feels like something he'd do as village.

Lopen - No idea. If I had to say one way or the other right now, I'd say village, but that's a really weak read.

Orlok - Looking back on his posts, his tone seems neutral, and looking at circumstantial evidence I could go either way. On the one hand, he defends Sart multiple times and then eventually votes on him late in the cycle. He also doesn't want to give the Mayor to high-profile players like Meta/Wilson (who are currently as close to cleared as we can get). (And then he goes and votes for Maill for Mayor, which is kind of odd.) On the other hand, I'm pretty sure he's the one that breaks the tie in Sart's favor, which is a good point for his innocence. So... I'm not sure what to think. I'd lean a bit towards evil if I had to pick, but fairly neutral overall.

Sart - Probably a villager, to be honest, given the number of people who piled up on him over time. That said, I do think he was our best choice for a lynch, unfortunately. Or, apparently, the Forsaken! Yay!

Straw - Um. A scanner, apparently. I'd guess that he's village, honestly, but I still think we should follow Lopen's plan with him. I personally think Orlok would be the best candidate for a scan tonight, but that's up to him, obviously.

Stink - I agree with Lopen here. He seems very much like village!Stink to me.

Nyali - Bah. Instinctive trust. I'm going to have to fight against that until she's evil, probably. Isn't that wonderful.

Trying to look at her posts objectively, nothing jumps out at me either way. So I'll go with neutral, I guess.

Aman - Feels more village to me? That's entirely gut, though, so I'm not all that sure. Although his suspicion of me for unnamed reasons felt more village, I'm fully aware that's something he's capable of coming up with as an eliminator.

Rubiks - Mayor-votes on Lopen on gut. Votes on Sheep. This post is a bit interesting in that it's kind of defending Sart. I'm somewhat suspicious of him (partly because of his reasoning for voting on Sheep, partly for his defense of Sart), but I'll leave him alone for the moment as it's his first game and he should have a chance to play for a little while at least before he's brutally lynched/killed.

Jaime - Nothing much to say here for the first day and a half. Then in the last twelve hours, she was the second vote on Strawman (after Sart), which is slightly suspicious. But she does give plenty of reasoning, so I'm not reading too much into that. She does defend Sart fairly strongly, which is also suspicious. And, like Orlok, votes Maill with not a ton of reasoning. So slight suspicion here as well, but same reasoning as Rubiks for leaving her alone for the moment. Still keeping an eye on both of them, though.

Winter - Very light suspicion, I think. Agrees that Sart is somewhat suspicious, but doesn't vote for him then (and accuses people of bandwagoning on him, thinking there were three votes not two - could be honest mistake, could be slight panic at finding the Forsaken up for the lynch). This post is also interesting to me because it tries to drive some paranoia between Meta and Wilson. Those things combined plus gut says maybe eliminator. Also, minor point, but her stress at the end reminded me a bunch of turnovers in QF15 with Joe. I'd think she'd confine that to the doc if she were an eliminator, but she does a lot of mindgames with things like that, so I don't think that points particularly towards either alignment. Points against that - last-minute vote on Sart feels genuine to me. Irritation at being called inconsistent also feels genuine (although that's not necessarily alignment-indicative, it just shows you don't like being called inconsistent. For which I do not blame you.). Not as strong of an evil read as some above (which are to be fair also fairly weak, I think), but it's there.

Meta - soft-confirmed by his vote on Sart. Not quite as much as Wilson, but even so. I did have some hesitations earlier, but they're mostly gone now given circumstances.

Although, thought - he's soft confirmed not Darkfriend. He's certainly not soft-confirmed not being Padan Fain. Maybe. Not sure how I feel about that thought. But I'll put it out there.

Wilson - Again, soft-confirmed by first vote on Sart, even more so than Meta. May have more to say on her, but this has already gone longer than it should have and my roommates who are trying to get to sleep are probably irritated by the clicking of my keyboard, so that can wait.

Seonid - Eventually voted on Seonid for the information it'd bring (although later changed over to Straw). Plus, generally gut good read. Somewhat trust.

Sheep - At a glance I don't really see why he got so many votes on him. It reads fine to me. He was equally suspicious of Sart and Lopen and chose to vote for Lopen, but that's the only point against him that I really noted. Very slight trust.

Con - Changed his lynch votes a couple of times, but I don't see much of interest other than that on first glance. (Obviously my reads are getting less thorough as I get more tired... Plus, I just listed every player I could think of and then went back to look up who I'd forgotten. I'm getting into the group I forgot to mention because they've been substantially less active. Thus less to say.)

Elodin - Mostly talking with Sheep and Wilson. Suspicious of Wilson. Voted Sart and then immediately took that off when someone pointed out his reasoning was faulty, but I don't necessarily view that as too much of a bad thing. Hmm. Neutral, for now.

Phatt - Has not posted at all.

Hael - Has not said much. Paranoid of me, with reason. So... neutral, I suppose?

Young Bard - Voted for Sheep, then Strawman, then Sheep, the second and third time when they had the most votes other than Sart respectively, I believe. Which is somewhat suspicious. Everything else looks fine, though, so I'll just say low neutral for the moment.

HS - busy with RL, so hasn't said much. I'll reserve judgement until he's a little more active.

Bugsy - Voted for Sart, then retracted and voted for Straw. Which seems somewhat like a village move, ish, but there's not much to go off of so I'm not at all sure on that.

DC - Has not yet posted.

GunshyMink - from what little he's said, I'm getting a village read, but there've only been a couple of game-relevant posts. I'd like to see more from you in the future, Gunshy!

Araris - Went after Seonid and Nyali in the one post he made. Not too much to draw from that post, but if I had to pick I'd say village.

Twei - made two posts. I can't read much from either. So neutral.

List of a few people who defended Sart (that I noticed - I didn't go through everyone's posts, so I probably missed some people):

Orlok

Jaime

Rubiks (kind of)

Myself (initially suspicious but didn't vote for a while, then semi-defended with changed meta argument - summarizing since I'm not bothering to link)

Okay, that's all done. Woo. That took a while, and it's after midnight... If someone else posts before I go to bed, I may revise and post my thoughts on the Corrupted that I wrote up earlier. We'll see. If not, I'll definitely post it in the morning. And I'll also respond to PMs in the morning, probably. I've seen them. I don't really feel like responding tonight. So you'll have to wait.

Good night.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Elbereth (Lomion)

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Okay, went post by post and jotted down some small notes about some interactions with/about Sart that I thought were interesting/suspicious. I don't think I'll put down who I think is most cleared by all of this because Padan Fain is lurking somewhere and he'd love to get a mole if he can.

 

Mailliw - ehhhh. I don't really see his defense of Sart/attack on Meta as all that suspicious even though Sart turned out to be a Forsaken. Neutral/village read based on interactions.

Aman - very tough call. Defended Sart but my readings of those defenses make me lean village, honestly.

Nyali - Interestingly enough, I noted down quite a bit of stuff about her. Mostly because I really really don't like saying "this person seems suspicious somehow" and then leaving it at that and never explaining because I personally get frustrated at others who do that when talking about me. I find it much more enjoyable when players give reasoning for suspecting me because then I can defend myself adequately. Anyways, on to the points about Nyali. Let's see, my notes say she ignores the votes on Sart early on. She hints that she thinks Sart is a little suspicious but it's just a passing comment and she doesn't focus on Sart but rather why she voted on Elbereth. She puts forward the strategy of lynching inactives, which could have been a tactic to get the lynch off of Sart. Or not, but it's a thought. Really, her only interaction with Sart was commenting on his Ta'veren questions, which I can't really glean much from either way. From that, I think my initial gut suspicion of her is a bit more solidified, but not a lot.

Elodin - His suspicion of Wilson now looks bad, because of how good Wilson looks right now. It was actually a bit confusing to be honest. I have it noted down that he defended Winter, and while I list it as a point against him, it's not because of the reason you'd think. You see, I'm thinking that Winter is a villager. I realize that some of you may disagree, but I think she's been acting more like a village!Winter than an evil!Winter. Just my opinion. Anyways, with that in mind, I view his defense of Winter as a buddying up tactic, where a villager is getting a lot of heat in the thread from villagers and an eliminator will come in and be like "nah, I think this person is a villager" which will(in theory) get that players trust or the others trust if the suspected person is lynched and found to be a villager. That may be a bit paranoid, but because Elodin didn't really give much reason for his defense of Winter, I think it's definitely possible. Elodins vote/vote retract on Sart. Elodin did actually vote on Sart at one point, but once he was given a good reason to remove his vote, he did, with the disclaimer it was for discussion. Could be genuine, but combined with Elodin's tendencies to vote right after other players(like Sheep pointed out earlier), he's my biggest suspect at the moment.

Haelbarde - Ignored the votes on Sart for the most part. Vagueness once I asked him about Sart. Although, he did explain that he was aware it was vague. I don't really suspect Hael at the moment, but I thought I'd comment on it.

The Young Bard - He tied the lynch between Sart and Sheep with his vote on Sheep. Oddly enough, I feel like that vote makes me lean village. It was unexplained and would not be considered a good move for an in-the-know eliminator because of Sart's evilness. I think at that point, with him being busy and such, he would be more likely to just not comment on the lynch as an eliminator in that situation. Again, just my opinion, could definitely be wrong. I realize the Forsaken role is one of the most powerful evil powers they've got, so eliminators might make risky moves they normally wouldn't if it was just a regular eliminator, but that's just not the vibe I'm getting from Bard.

Winter - My notes say: Interesting, but not suspicious. Which basically means "she's being kind of erratic and she did kinda defend Sart, but to me, she didn't do so in an eliminator way." Kind of in the same way I'm not suspicious of Bard, Seonid, and Orlok for their defense of Sart.

Gunshy - One of his posts explained how he felt about some people and he had Sart down as "some evidence pointing towards evil," which, I don't know, kind of made me think Gunshy could be evil as well. (if you can't tell, I'm more suspicious of some of the people who cast suspicion on Sart rather than the players who defended him. It's just because in our current Meta, it doesn't seem like eliminators defend each other in the thread hardly at all, regardless of their teammates roles/power.) This specific read is one of those that I think might be too paranoid though(like my past reads on DC, Aman and Joe in recent games), so I'll list him as neutral for now I guess.

Rubiks - I have him down as one of the more suspicious players who interacted with Sart. First of all, Sart poke voted on him but then removed the vote before Rubiks ever posted. Not sure what that means, but Sart might have gone with the "vote for an eliminator on Day 1" route like I've heard about happening before(not sure if I've really ever seen it happen all that much though, so, eh, weak point). Next, Rubiks finally responds to the vote and explains about Day 1 lynches, but doesn't respond to any of the suspicion surrounding Sart. To me, that seems a bit suspicious. My notes say he defended Sart at one point(but I can't recall the specific post atm >>). He also voted on Sheep, which put votes closer to moving the lynch off of Sart. He defended Elodin from Sheep a little as well, so, since I'm so suspicious of Elodin, that makes me more suspicious(but will add the disclaimer that I'm not a huge fan of making assumptions of a players alignment based on a different living, unconfirmed players guilt/non-guilt).

Stink - Mixed thoughts, but am reading village.

Jaime - She defended Sart quite a bit actually. But then the next part of my notes say "ehhhh." So, I guess I'm mildly suspicious, but also kind of not.

Twei - Not a whole lot. Small defense of Sart which she based off of Elbereth's explanation of Sart's past behavior. Honestly, not really sure about Twei. I'm kind of neutral. If Elodin turns out to be an eliminator, I'd guess village though, because she voted on Elodin.

Edit! I forgot to add Meta here, since, and I know this may come as a surprise, I am actually a bit paranoid about him. I mean, I think he's village. I do. But, I also could see him being a Darkfriend I think, because of how he connected Sart to people(me, Winter, Mailliw, who I am currently reading as all village(shaky reads, but still(except for me of course ))).

 

I have quite a few other village reads based on Sarts alignment reveal, but again, I'm trying to be careful not to make anyone a target for Padan Fain's conversion. I'm not really sure how to deal with that, except players should not reveal their roles and should not reveal if they have a lot of information.

 

This message has been approved by Mayor Jak.

Edited June 5, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Nyali she/her]

Sorry, I was planning to come back and vote later in the day turn, but baby+company distracted me and I forgot. I still feel that inactives are solid choices day one, though people acting particularly suspicious are better ones.

I'd like to point out that the people who have expressed the most suspicion of me (I think, I missed the second half of day one) are/were in LG20 with me. The game isn't quite over yet, but if you look at it, I think you can see why they might be going after me. I'm new here and not sure how common retribution plays are, or if they are just trying to take out a strong late game player early, or if they are just suspicious due to gut read holdovers.

In any case, I will post more during the next day turn when I have the time to read through the second half of day one. I will say though that the vote was close enough that I think it's safe to say that at most one eliminator voted for Sarah and it would be best to focus on the people who didn't vote for her. Though, of course, Padan Fain (or Corrupted after tonight) could be one of those.

[Haelbarde he/him]

That is one of the best day one lunches ever. I am very surprised, now I am going to bed, but could someone make a list of who defended Sarah(Sart) please?

You're saying that Forsaken are a tasty meal? A heads up, everyone - Lorien (Conquestor) is confirmed a cannibal. Be careful where you leave your dead.

 

---

Okay, that was a lucky lynch. I'm hoping that means we don't have to worry about a second eliminator kill going forwards - I don't think the rules prevent there being multiple forsaken, but I'd think that it'd be unlikely that Gamma would give the Darkfriends two Forsaken - 3 team kills seems a tad unbalanced. 

 

Thinking I'm going to start with my quick links:

 

Quick Links:

> Signups

> Day 1

> Night 2

 

Player List:

1. Mailliw73 - Amaiya Mavenil
2. Seonid - Cenn al'Idrius
3. Elbereth - Lomion
4. Amanuensis - Nikel Fain, Padan's son, on a quest to stop his father
5. Nyali - Eryn, a Cairhienin 'Maiden of the Sword', lost from her society on her journey
6. AliasSheep - Llewella Rhysdaughter, an Andoran scholar studying history
7. Conquestor - Lorien, the town guard, likes boring patrols
8. Master Elodin - Ba'Alzamon, on the run from Whitecloaks
9. Phattemer - Ana-alline
10. Haelbarde - M'Hael, a False Dragon
11. Little Wilson - Keland, Owner of The Golden Dagger, Witless' half-brother
12. The Young Bard - Ruon, 15 year old, wants to be a gleeman and leave the town for adventure
13. Hellscythe - Tazrim Maim
14. ThatTinyStrawMan - Gladium Dei
15. Sart - Sarah Tea, a recent widow Forsaken
16. Metacognition - Mezal Althara, a foul-mouthed, ill tempered blacksmith
17. WinterCloud - Lexa & Heaven
18. Bugsy - The aging town librarian
19. Deathclutch19 - Trafalgar Law
20. TheMightyLopen - Jak (Of the Shadows?)
21. GunshyMink74 - Gunshy, an entrepreneurial dirt salesman
22. ArarisValerian - Alain Stern, a lumberjack
23. RubiksCube - Cubik Rube
24. IrulelikeStink - ???
25. jaimeleecee - Birgitte, serving girl at the Inn, named after the Hero of Legends
26. OrlokTsubodai - Locke, silent stranger
27. Twelfthrootoftwo - Douza, with his hammer

 

Wait, Sarah was Sart? :/ This is why I hate character names being used outside of RP. I thought that Sarah was one of the new players to sign up... I guess I should pay more attention. My apologies - I've been distracted the last few days - I've not read the last couple of pages of the day cycle which happened after I went to sleep. I'm gonna read those now, then I'll post again (or edit this post).

[Nyali she/her]

Someone said to use character names exclusively, so that's what I've been doing.

[Haelbarde he/him]

I guess I'm not a fan.

 

So Straw claimed scanner... Right okay... If there's any other viewers, it might pay to scan Straw, to verify this. I probably wouldn't contact him if you did though - he's currently a reasonable target for the darkfriends or Padan Fain. More, I'd wait until you had scanned a second villager - they're less likely to get corrupted, I would think.

 

Re: Sart - looking at his posts, I don't understand why he'd end up the lynched player, with 7+1 votes on him. The D1L thing didn't need to be brought up, but doing so isn't really lynch worthy, in my opinion. And I thought there was merit to his thought about shifting the Mayor each turn. I don't know if I would truly get behind it. I'll vote for it to shift if it looks like the current mayor seems to be abusing it, but otherwise I'm a bit indifferent to it, I think. 

 

Sart (8): Wilson, Meta, Elbereth, Strawman, Orlok, Lopen(+1), Winter

Wilson was annoyed by the d1l discussion, which I can understand. I'm not sure I agree with Meta's reason for voting.

I would find it odd that Wilson and Meta would vote Sart straight out if they were eliminators. Although, if a bandwagon developed, I could see them keeping their votes there so as not to become more suspicious, semi-justifying it with the fact that Sart hasn't always been the most helpful teammate (I think - I've not played with him that much), although that's a bit cold. So I could see it as possible, but really, I don't find it super likely. So I'm inclined to lean village on Wilson and Meta. 

 

Got to head off for the moment, so I'll continue this later. Without looking at the reasons for the votes, I'd continue to be wary of Elb and Winter, would suspect that Straw was trying to save his own neck, and Orlok/Lopen might be voting for analysis purposes. 

 

I'll also say I liked Aman's post here. Leaning Village on him too.

[Young Bard he/him]

Okay. This will be a long post. First off, I'll give an overview of what was going on in my head this morning. (Bear in mind, this was all before I discovered Sart was evil.) I'll give my views on other people after.

 

Due to RL stuff, I had been planning to leave home (and internet) between 9:45 and 10:00 (Sydney Time). To compare, I made my first post at 10:02, an edit at 10:05 and my second post at 10:09 (I only had time because I was waiting on other people, but even then I knew I'd have to dash out the door with a moment's notice once they were ready)

 

Okay. So, when I log on, furiously scrolling, I see that Alias has responded. Check. I don't even read that much of what he says, because I only voted on him as a poke vote and I had no time to do so. However, I see that in the last vote tally, Sart is pulling ahead in the lynch numbers.

 

The thing is, at that point, I hadn't seen a genuine post about Sart being an Eliminator. The first few votes came from people who were annoyed about Sart discussing whether or not to have a Day 1 lynch, which I understand is a regular topic for him to bring up. However, to vote against him for that seems less like a vote to kill an eliminator, and more like a personal vendetta against a particular player as a grudge. Which, IMO, goes against the spirit of the game.

 

Now, knowing that Sart was the Forsaken, that argument falls flat. But, I believe even Wilson admitted that she didn't expect that result. Had Sart been Eliminated, and had been discovered to be a villager, it would have been for reasons that were basically ganging up on someone. (I know I'm over-simplifying this, but the point remains.)

 

At the end of the Day, I did want my vote to go somewhere, and I wanted it to go somewhere genuine. I didn't think voting for Sart would achieve that. So, in the heat of the moment, I looked at the major candidates for lynching (Sart, Straw, and Sheep), and I picked the one who I felt there were the most genuine arguments against - Straw.

 

The previous day, there had already been suspicions about Straw. With his lack of explanation, people couldn't see what was going on inside his head, and what we did see seemed - eliminator-y according to several people. While a far cry from a solid choice, with only a couple minutes, I decided to vote for Straw.

 

However, having done that, and still having a bit more time, I quickly reviewed a couple posts. I saw Elodin's accusation, of Sheep, and Sheep's reluctant admission. At the time, this seemed to me like a cover-up, in which Alias was trying to fix the problem they themself made. Now I've read the thread properly, I don't agree with my earlier view, but that's what I was thinking at the time. In addition, I then see Sheep trying to accuse Elodin, which, again without context, seems like Sheep trying to shift blame of themself to someone else, and get their accuser on the defensive. Again, with context, my opinion of this has changed.

 

So, I decide to switch my vote back to Sheep. Then I head out, narrowly make my music performance, and only come back this evening.

 

Ignoring IKYK's for the minute (I can't be bothered with the headaches), had I been an eliminator I would have been a lot more organized than that. I'd probably have logged into the doc first to see what the plan was, and followed that, instead of whiplashing around and changing my mind. Also, I wouldn't have brought attention to the fact that it was a tie, as I would hope it to go unnoticed and hopefully end the day without a lynch.

 

The other thing is my mistake about rollover time. Had I known that it was 1 hour left instead of 3, I probably wouldn't have done as much. I'd assumed that there was plenty of time for people who were on to see what I'd done and to counteract it if they were significantly concerned. As it turns out, I was wrong, but seeing as there were more posts and more people online in that one hour than there were in the last 3 hours or more of Day One LG21, it turned out all right.

 

So... yeah. That's what happened. If anyone has further questions, feel free to post in the thread or PM me this night turn.

 

---

 

Now, for my own suspicions (I'll mention everyone who I've made a mental note about that I remember as I'm typing up.):

 

On a scale of 0-100, 0 being confirmed eliminator, 100 being confirmed villager:

 

Wilson - 80. Soft cleared by Sart being the Forsaken

 

Meta - 65 - Same as Wilson, but less so.

 

Both of these two have basically agreed with each other the whole way through, so I'll talk about them together. Wilson's been remarked upon for acting slightly unusual, which I don't think she's responded to... Nevertheless, she led the crusade against Sart, which she wouldn't do as an Eliminator unless she was playing really long game. Meta also did the same thing, but he could have been bandwagoning. In addition, not knowing his playstyle, he seems unusually aggressive, and has also made arguments I don't necessarily agree with. Maybe that's me subconsciously marking him down more as an eliminator, but I'm a lot more tentative about Meta.

 

Lopen - 55 - I didn't trust him, but he's rebutted all my points against him more than adequately (and Meta's points against him seemed like a long bow to me - see my post on Meta). Then, enough people apparently trusted him enough to make him mayor.

 

Aman - 55 - He seems a lot more - benevelont - in this. Even before he was revealed in LG21, he was making a lot of sweeping statements. He generally seems a lot less confident in himself this game. Probably trying to work out who's who.

 

Winter - 52/53 - Stuck to their opinion of Sart even when he was basically confirmed to be lynched. Could be IKYK'ing, but she's admitted that she looks guilty. Too hard to tell at this point.

 

El - 50 - Didn't really say much about the actual game, more about meta stuff in general stuff, so it's hard to tell. This is due to RL commitments, so I'll check back in a couple cycles to see an update.

 

jaimeleecee - 48 - made a lot of posts - seems to know a lot about other people and games for a new group (when I joined in LG21 I had the advantage of Shard Zero). Probably just paranoia, plus I have suspicions a lot stronger than on jaime, and I'd rather not lynch someone so new before they really get into it unless I'm sure.

 

AliasSheep - 45 - Upon review, I don't find him too guilty. In fact, I think the people who voted for him or else suggested he was an Eliminater after me might have been trying to shift blame away from Sart. Elodin's arguments against Sheep make me think this in particular. I should probably put Sheep back at 50, but I have a thing about being wrong. 

 

Rubik - 42/43 - bandwagoned. Didn't explain much in his posts, but that's probably because he's trying to sort things out because he's new. Not particularly worried about him at the moment, though. Will look back in a couple cycles to see where he's at.

 

Straw - 37/38 - Attempted to bandwagon. Made several accusations without comment or explanation. Confirmed lie at least once. Claimed scanner, but a scanner is technically a neutral role, or Straw could be lying to prevent being lynched. Would like to have another scanner verify.

 

Elodin - 30 - Consistently tried to shift blame on multiple people away from Sart without much explanation. Has attempted to bandwagon. Has not sufficiently provided any counter evidence.

 

So that's my big long post. Sorry it's so long, I had a lot of stuff I wanted to put in it. I might add something I've forgotten, as I'm sure there's at least one person who I've missed.

 

EDIT: Silly typos.

Edited June 5, 2016 by The Young Bard

[Straw he/him]

For the same reasons as stated above I suspect Elodin.

[jaimeleecee she/her]

Well I feel obligated to defend myself more now...

For most of the day everyone pinned me as probably villager until I was wrong for "defending" Sart. I think if you review my posts I make it pretty clear that what I'm saying is I don't get it. I am constantly asking for clarification there... I didn't mind the D1 Lynch post for reasons I explained a couple of times. And I just remained thoroughly confused as to why Sart was so suspicious and no one could give me a better reason. That made me suspicious that there was something going on there. And I think my reasoning for targeting straw (at first) was sound... Because look at his posts... Up until he role claimed being a scanner but I wasn't going to retract my vote at that point because I had been keeping tally and clearly Sart was going to be the lynch. I voted Maill for mayor because I didn't trust the rest of you who had voted for Sart because I DIDNT GET IT and still don't, and I thought he made some good arguments.

Like I said I'm grateful to those of you who have better instincts than me (mine are usually on point, but I guess that's when reading someone face to face not words on a screen...)

@Bard I definitely don't think I ever came across as knowing people I stated in almost every post that I wasn't familiar with peoples play styles and that I was going off of gut feelings. Also Gamma can vouch for the fact that I spent two days messaging him and going through the LG 6 thread before committing to play the game... Because I hate feeling lost and not knowing what I'm doing... This rust, like most of you, is intimidating and I didn't want to make a fool of myself. So you saying I seem to know a lot about the game for someone new, I will take as a compliment

Edit: fixing name accidentally wrote straw instead of Bard

Edited June 5, 2016 by jaimeleecee

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

Wow. Just wow. I did not see that coming. I am now more suspicious, and you lynched a forsaken. Dang. How do you react to something like that?

[Straw he/him]

@jaime What did I say about you?

[jaimeleecee she/her]

@jaime What did I say about you?

You didn't say anything about me.. I meant your posts read suspicious to me because they were short and seemed bandwagony, like you didn't give explanations for your actions and when I tried probing you for more information by voting for you, you ignored it.. So suspicion fueled, until you role claimed.. That just confused the rust out of me Edited June 5, 2016 by jaimeleecee

[Straw he/him]

@jaime Yeah, yesterday was confusing.

[Elbereth she/her]

For once, I don't have much to comment on, so I'll just say my piece about the Corrupted and then be done. I'm going back home today, so after this post I won't be available until 3-4 hours after rollover. After that point, though, I should be back to my normal schedule, which is great.

Since the night's started and there's no lynch discussion to keep us going, let's talk about the Corrupted.

First off, I disagree vehemently that Padan Fain isn't a problem early game. It's not like Autonomy when he's only tagging people and not actually causing any harm, so you could leave him alone for a while. Padan Fain is converting people. The longer we let him live, the more valuable villagers are converted, and the more information he has, and the harder to get rid of.

So, how do we stop him? Two points.

One, the easiest way to find Corrupted is looking for changes in behavior. If someone suddenly becomes more active (or less active), that's grounds for suspicion. That kind of thing. Which is fairly obvious, and I'm just pointing it out as something to look for.

Second, and my main point. Let's take a brief look at targets. Padan Fain can Corrupt everyone, except the Forsaken (and potentially hidden roles). It's entirely his (or her) choice. So, who is he going to want to corrupt? That's fairly obvious. Wilson. The hands-down best target for conversion right now is Wilson. She's currently the most trusted player, plus an excellent eliminator as well. (Also Meta, me, Lopen, and Maill, to a lesser extent. Couple other people, probably, but in general high-profile trusted players. The nice thing for Padan Fain is that he can see exactly who's trusted through the lynch mechanic.) Barring special circumstances like DC converting HS because they know each other in real life or Maill converting Joe because Joe can catch evil!Maill, Wilson's probably the best choice.

And why am I giving Padan Fain ideas? Because I'm turning it into an IKYK. I really don't want to have to go up against an evil Wilson when I can at least try to prevent it. Plus potentially an evil Meta the next night, if that's Fain's choice. That's just a terrifying thought. And I also really don't want to have to lynch Wilson (and other trusted players) in short order because she's likely to have been converted. I'm sure the Darkfriends would be delighted to make us lynch our most cleared and strongest players. So let's not do that.

I'm going to be looking very closely at those players I've named when the day starts. So Fain has a choice now: to convert someone who's going to be closely scrutinized and potentially killed eventually, or to convert a player who is less active/trusted, which is less efficient and good news for the village.

Brief point about trust - Please don't trust Wilson with your information. Try not to trust anyone, but anyone who's been said to be cleared in thread really shouldn't have information because of their high potential of conversion.

Sorry, Wilson, if you wanted to be converted.

Does anyone else have any thoughts about the Corrupted?

That's all I have for now. When I get back home, hopefully I can participate in suspicions more than general stuff. See you all on the other side of turnover!

Edited June 5, 2016 by Elbereth (Lomion)

[STINK he/him]

Oh yeah we can PM people now right?

[Conquestor he/him]

Lorien

Are we going to keep Jak(Lopen) as mayor" If not, who are we going to change it to? I think Keland(Wilson) would make a great mayor. Now I am going to make a suspicious list for the first time, so, don't judge me.

Sarah(Sart) : She is obviously a very powerful eliminator.

Keland(Wilson) : I think he is fairly cleared, but don't want to rely on her because then she will definitely be turned.

Jak(Lopen) : I don't trust him, he joined the bandwagon fairly late and was voted to be mayor by Sarah.

Mezal(Meta) : I think he is fairly cleared as well and would also make a good mayor. I know people don't think he is as cleared, but he was second to join the Sarah voting and helped give evidence against her.

Gladium(Straw) : I think he is either a very scared eliminator or a villager with a death wish.

Lexaven(Winter) : I think she is a villager, yes, she did defend Sarah, but that was probably an honest mistake.

Ba'Alzamon(Elodin) : I think he is an eliminator. He voted for Sarah, but when he was given a reason to stop voting for her, he dropped his vote immediately. He then tried to push suspicion off himself and onto someone else besides Sarah.

Eryn(Nyali) : I'm not sure about her, but she kept making lots of different opinions about something in the same post. It was very contradictory, but is probably nothing.

Tazrim(Hellscythe) : I don't have a good read on her, problably village.

Lomion(Elbereth) : She is a very confusing person to read, but I read her as neutral.

Locke(Orlok) : I think he is villager, but am unsure.

Amaiya(Mail) : I am unsure about him and he seems to have some trust among a people.

Cenn(Seonid) : He voted for Sarah, but might been an eliminator.

I know this isn't everyone, but I don't have good enough reads and am tired of righting on a mobile device.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Since a surprising number of people have made lists of all the players and the reasons they trust / distrust them I think I’ll follow their example Hmm, feeling a tad lazy right now so I’ll just do it in the order of when people signed up for the game, rather than organizing it from most trusted to most suspicious like I usually do. That being said, I will categorize players as one of the following; Strong Trust, Weak Trust, Weak Suspicion, or Strong Suspicion.

1. 
   

   Mailliw, Weak Suspicion: First thing that caught my interest was him claiming he’d be “playing this game 100% openly and honestly.” This isn’t very telling for alignment on its own but there are some general trends I’ve noticed that I would like to address. Eliminators have a tendency to act one of two ways when it comes to information; either they are more free with it / willing to exchange it for other information because they don’t have to worry about it leaking to the bad guys, or they act paranoid in order to give them an excuse for hoarding their own information (usually when they have a role that they need to keep a secret), which often leads to them overplaying said paranoia or mentioning the subject more often than usual. It’s not something that should be held against him, but a possible explanation, if he does end up being evil. On to the trust/suspicion list he posted, it didn’t seem like it had any ill intent to me at first, but knowing Sart was a Forsaken that’s slightly changed. Distrusts Wilson (didn’t explain why) and Meta (because he feels he’s been misrepresenting people). Argues that if Sart is evil then they are not soft cleared. Honestly I feel like he’s anticipating Sart’s death and, as an eliminator, is fearing a trusted Wilson and Meta by N1, and therefore is risking his own neck in an attempt to sow doubt about them. He also says he distrusts Sheep who, for a time, was considered an alternative candidate for the lynch, which could just be him trying to nudge people away from Sart. Another thing of note is that he says he trusts Elodin / likes his “more outgoing play style.” Mostly I find it interesting because he’s the only player on the list he commented on other than Wilson (who he didn’t give a reason for suspecting, just that he “believes that we will regret it if she dies”). Then there’s his opposing the Sart lynch, which can be construed as suspicious, but since I did the same exact thing citing similar reasons / feelings, I don’t really have the ground to stand on in arguing that.

   
   
   
2. 
   

   Seonid, Weak Suspicion: After Meta places the second vote on Meta, he voices concerns of a bandwagon forming, which in my opinion was way too early to determine. Second votes like that happen early on all the time, and it’s usually because a player wants to put more pressure on someone, since poke votes are so a frequently used. Knowing that Sart is evil, I can see this reaction a result of them being teammates. Seonid’s goal might have been to discourage further votes on Sart in order to save his life. After a significant amount of time passes Seonid returns and votes for Sart, saying that “finding his alignment will be the most useful thing that this day could end up with” due to how much discussion was centered on Sart. This makes me lean towards village, knowing that Sart is evil, but I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a second and suggest that Sart might have told his teammates in the doc to sacrifice him, if necessary, in order to gain trust. I kinda like this theory because even with his vote on him he tries to steer the people away, notably to Strawman, who I personally think is a villager. Now that I’m rereading his first post in this night thread, where he says “I really don’t think any smart Eliminator team would throw their most powerful role under the bus like that. No amount of extra trust would be worth sacrificing that extra kill per night!” I feel that either I’m right about Sart telling his team to help lynch him and Seonid is trying to encourage that logic, or that he’s laying down a false lead for later in case he gets caught.

   
   
   
3. 
   

   Elbereth, Strong Suspicion: Since I already mentioned it last turn, that secret reason I think Elby might be evil? Yeah, I didn’t really think about it at the time but it’s possible it’s not due to her alignment, but instead a result of her transient service. I will keep paying attention to it in case it happens again after she gets wherever she’s going, but I’m not going to let that get to my head as much as it was at first. If you read my little spiel regarding eliminators and information then you’ll understand how that applies here. I personally think Elbereth is overplaying her paranoia when it comes to role claiming and secret roles. It feels to me like she’s trying too hard to appear helpful to get on people’s good sides while also trying to stir up some chaos with all that talk about spies. I think her arguments for why she wouldn’t make a good Mayor are sound, but could definitely see her avoiding it because she doesn’t want to be under the spotlight, as someone (I think Elodin) suggested at one point. She does say that she would accept it “because at least then I know it’s not in the hands of a Darkfriend/Corrupted” which gives me a bad vibe, especially since she didn’t even suggest that Padan could Corrupt her after the election. She complains a lot about people voting for her for Mayor, saying things like “I’m getting paranoid that at least one of the people voting for me is a Darkfriend trying to implicate me for getting so many votes so quickly,” which implies she doesn’t like the attention, which when a player tries to avoid either means they are evil or have a powerful role. I find it peculiar that later on she argues that if she was given the power that she would use it, as if a part of her wants to get elected but doesn’t want to be open with that desire. She does vote for Sart, but see my Seonid paragraph where I discuss Sart telling his team to sacrifice him for trust. Honestly I am convinced at least one player that helped lynch him is a teammate, because I think he is smart enough to realize that if Wilson votes for you more votes are going to gravitate your way, due to her reputation alone. Anyone remember the ridiculousness of the Shallan Debacle? Cause I sure do. Anyway, Elbereth textually sighs when she votes for him. Not really evidence for her being evil, but come on now. Oh, huh, it turns out Sheep was the one who brought up the possibility Elbereth doesn’t want to be Mayor because she’s evil. Makes me a bit more confident about my read on her knowing it wasn’t Elodin, who I also suspect strongly. More talk about role claiming, useful or not, still makes me feel like she’s trying too hard. I won’t really comment on it more beyond that since it’s mostly meta related and I want to focus on the game itself. Eh, nothing on her trust/suspicion list stands out to me right now, but I’m also hungry and have been at this for like three hours already and am need of a break.

   
   
   

 

So yeah, break time. I’ll post this now, since I can tell this is going to be huge on its own, and overwhelmingly so if I put all my thoughts together. I swear, I dedicate far too much of my life to these games sometimes.

 

Ugh, stopped receiving emails for some weird reason, so I didn't see some of these new posts including Elby's. Just read it and want to say that I agree completely and had intended on bringing up that Wilson is a likely target for Corruption and should be handled accordingly.

 

Oh and, people, it's been the Night Turn for 13 hours and I haven't received a single PM yet! I am offend!

Edited June 5, 2016 by Amanuensis

[STINK he/him]

Well we don't know for sure if there is a PM role alive, do we? Unless others have started PMs already...

[Conquestor he/him]

Lorien

Well we don't know for sure if there is a PM role alive, do we? Unless others have started PMs already...

Phil Bill(Stink) we can make pms at night at any point, but can only do so as long as the Dream Role is still alive.

[STINK he/him]

How do we know that the Dreamwalkers are alive for sure?

[little wilson she/her]

Now knowing that Sart was the Forsaken, that argument falls flat. But, I believe even Wilson admitted that she didn't expect that result. Had Sart been Eliminated, and had been discovered to be a villager, it would have been for reasons that were basically ganging up on someone. (I know I'm over-simplifying this, but the point remains.)

[snip]

Wilson's been remarked upon for acting slightly unusual, which I don't think she's responded to...

For the first point, as I said, I didn't retract my vote because of the people saying he was the one we're learn the most about. I've participated in enough mislynches as a villager that knowing that someone is probably going to flip villager doesn't inherently make me remove my vote, particularly when that person *is* the potential lynch candidate discussed the most in context with the lynch. For the vast majority of the day, he was the only serious contender, and while the arguments against him were far from the best in terms of a lynch. I don't think they were the worst either.

Yes, the metagame was different when Sart played and yes, the meta lynch discussion was talked about. But the discussion *about* that discussion *also* happened, and how most of the discussion was tied up in that discussion so the day ended without any real info gained (though that discussion usually happened in the dead and spec docs). The point is, that topic is an easy default to throw the village onto a track that leads nowhere. I don't care what Orlok or anyone else says about it. Aman is right: it's pointless to discuss. If you support it, do it, but don't force others to vote in it off they don't want to. If you don't support it, don't get involved with the lynch, but don't try to stop it. It's really that simple. No need to over complicate it.

I stand by my reasons for voting Sart initially and I'd stand by it regardless of his alignment. I mentioned if he kept participating, I'd likely remove that vote, but I was keeping it there to keep him talking. He stopped. He didn't post at all after that. So I don't agree that it was "ganging up", no matter how simply you want to put it.

For the second point, what exactly am I supposed to say? I don't think I'm off. I'm stating my views in as honest a manner as I can. If people want to say they think I'm off, they can do that, but I don't have to address something as flimsy as "she's just acting unusual," if I don't see anything to back that up.

[Master Elodin]

Ok, so I guess I should respond to the allegations against me. All I can really say is that there was no basis for the large amounts of votes on any of the lynch candidates so I was ready to jump at any (however small) reason for one persons lynching. Also now can we talk about Night actions?

EDIT: Aman, with your theory about Sart and Seonid why are you suspicious of me?

Edited June 5, 2016 by Master Elodin

[little wilson she/her]

Also, to counter El's worry about me being converted, there a really good reason why I'm a very bad candidate for conversion: I will certainly die early in this game. Padan Fain only has a limited number of conversions. Converting me would give him *maybe* a bit of info, but I would die shortly after and that conversion will be wasted. His converts living for longer is more important than a bit of info he may or may not get.