Long Game 22: Corenne al'Daishar

[STINK he/him]

Alright I'll use it on Aman.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Thanks Stink. So who do you think we should lynch? It's almost definitely gonna be Rubik or Hael(Aonar).

[Aonar he/him]

Hello everybody!  I'm Hael now, apparently. ...And, there's a lot to respond to and I'm not 100% sure all what's going on. But that's fine. This should be fun.

5 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Well, I highly recommend us lynching Hael. If he's not Fain then feel free to come at me with a Wolfbrother or the lynch the next day. That being said, technically Hael is no longer in the game, and the suspect is now Aonar. @Aonar Faileas, do you have anything helpful to contribute?

Alright. Before we begin, thank you, Aman, for providing such a useful table. I'll be getting back to that later. So; do I have anything meaningful to contribute? Maybe, maybe not. In all honesty, my decision to pinch-hit may have been a poor one; I've really only given the thread a brief skim, and as such, I am still in the process of forming suspicions. 

However, I can always analyse. And, if you were wondering about Hael being overly neutral in his opinions (like usual) you can be assured that I will play much more aggressively.  

Now, on to the table:

5 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Will this work? I'll be very happy if it does.

Name	Role(claim)	Proof	Darkfriend?	Padan?
Aman	Aiel-Blooded	GM PM	No	No
Sheep	Whitecloak	Scanned by Viewer	No	No
Winter	Unknown	Not Online	No (unless there are 5 Darkfriends)	No
Jaimee	Ta’veren	Redirected Bugsy	No (unless there are 5 Darkriends)	No (unless corrupted by Bugsy)
Joe	Ta’veren	Redirected Hael	No (unless there are 5 Darkfriends)	No (unless corrupted by Hael)
Rubiks	Aiel-Blooded	Survived Fireball	Maybe	No
Elodin	Dreamwalker	Multiple Wolf Attempts	Maybe	No
Meta	“Dreamwalker”	Detained	No	No
Stink	“Thief-Taker”	None that I’m aware of	Maybe	Maybe
Bugsy	Unknown	None that I’m aware of	Maybe	Maybe
Mailliw	Unknown	None that I’m aware of	Maybe	Maybe
Haelaonar	Unknown	None that I’m aware of	Maybe	Maybe
Lopen	“Aiel-Blooded”	None	Unlikely	Maybe

She's confirmed because both a Darkfriend and Corruption occurred last night and she was never online to send in an order.

If Stink's Corrupted all that means is he'd have to be honest to avoid suspicion, or lie and say I'm evil which after my death would prove he's evil, so that isn't really an error. If you still think I'm Fain though, all it takes is a lynch to confirm I'm not, and I'm okay with doing that but like I said, unless people have a solid reason to suspect me other than unaccounted for actions, I'd rather we lynch another player with things that suggest they're evil on top of it.

To begin, citing information no one else has access to as proof always ticks me off just a tad. Sure, innocent players know they are innocent. Without proof that others can see, however, it's all just words. And words are more than a touch mutable. I won't call you a liar, because I can't be sure, but I sure won't trust you either.

However, the rest of your table brings up a very valid point; a lot of assumptions of innocence are being made in this game. (Also; could someone explain to me how Meta's detainment means he isn't a Darkfriend? Without assuming there to be only four Darkfriends? Additionally, your Fain column is inconsistent. I seem to remember someone clarifying that Fain could not have sub-roles, so Joe/Rubiks cannot be Fain. [Unless I'm miss-remembering, which is very possible.] They could be corrupted, but if you're including corruptions, I'm fairly certain there are no players we can completely confirm to be uncorrupted.)

There have been a lot of claims made without sufficient proof, and a lot of players that have been counted innocent without perfect reasoning, which I don't really like. I'm not sure what to do about it, but that's because I haven't been in this long enough to sort the good claims from the bad. (You can trust me when I say I'm going to be making a lot of PMs tonight. )

Anyways, back to your first post:

5 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Ah, no. I see where I was confused, now. I'm not sure why but my mind completely disregarded anything regarding Thief-Talking in favor of finding Fain. That's my bad. It wasn't an intentional misinterpretation, I assure you. I'm still suspicious of you because as of right now I have absolutely no reason to trust you (no idea what role you have, if any) but that paragraph is pretty much rendered null, as I was analyzing you from the perspective that Haelaonar is Fain and you were trying to keep him from being lynched (since earlier I saw something that said, I think from you as well, where only Haelaonar, Winter and I were possible Fain's, and I know for a fact I'm not and Winter is proven without a doubt. I think that's why I was confused).

Anyway, I think I have a pretty solid plan. If we lynch Haelaonar and have Stink Thief-Take me we should be good. If it turns out Haelaonar is Fain then that would mean Rubicks is Corrupted, so we'd have to kill him anyway, regardless if he's the last Darkfriend or not. Stink will then prove I'm not Fain or a Darkfriend because he'd learn I made no action last night, allowing me to keep my remaining life while also removing any reason for people to suspect me. If it turns out that Hael is not Fain then that means someone lied about their role (though it wouldn't be me because Stink would be able to vouch for me) and we can begin looking at the players who have no solid confirmations so far.

Of course you think it's a solid plan. It's a plan that works equally well regardless of which player it's applied to, but arbitrarily keeps you alive.  I really have no comment beyond that. It is a good plan (albeit the slight hitch in the scenario that Aman is a Darkfriend Aiel). I would ask you to consider who you are lynching and why, though. (Notably, the Aiel claim. It's a very good role to lie about, and we've had an unusually high number of them. Makes you an undesirable target for lynches or kills, regardless or whether or not it's true, as the only way to be sure is to kill/lynch them.)

 

On a completely different note: Maill, do you know something we don't?  Is there a particular reason why Meta is a good lynch this cycle?

 

(As an aside, could people not call me Haelaonar? It's weird. )

Edited June 18, 2016 by Aonar Faileas

[Mailliw73 he/him]

3 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Can you explain the vote on Meta for me? Unless I missed something, he can't be Fain or the last Darkfriend either.

I can't remember why he can't be either of those. Care to explain?

Edited June 18, 2016 by Mailliw73

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Aonar, once I get back to my laptop, I was actually planning on doing a very detailed list of what we know of each players roles and how likely it is that they're telling the truth(and what proof there is to back up the claims). There's fairly good proof for most players roles though. Me, Aman, you, and Winter are the only really unaccounted for players, I believe.

Edit: Maill, it's a pretty sure thing that Meta isn't Fain at least, right?

Oh, and if there's only 4 darkfriends, Meta can't be one because he was just detained by Sheep.

Edited June 18, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Aonar he/him]

@TheMightyLopen Yes please do, thanks.  I could really use a good summary of what's public knowledge. I should've spent a bit more time reading over things before Hael had to leave. (Question, if you're not accounted for, why is no one suspicious of you? )

[Amanuensis he/him]

21 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

@TheMightyLopen Yes please do, thanks.  I could really use a good summary of what's public knowledge. I should've spent a bit more time reading over things before Hael had to leave. (Question, if you're not accounted for, why is no one suspicious of you? )

To respond to you from earlier (I don't feel like multiquoting right now) that table was from my personal notes, so it takes into account information that I have available to me. I understand where you're coming from about not trusting me just because I put GM PM in proof. That was really just a joke, even if it IS true. As for the rest of it, I'll see what I can explain. Lopen is unlikely a Darkfriend because he was very involved in lynching both Sart AND Gunshy. Then again, that doesn't rule him out entirely because Seonid DID bus Sart, which I brought up as a possibility and a reason I suspected him in this post of mine from N1:

Quote

Seonid, Weak Suspicion: After Meta places the second vote on Sart, he voices concerns of a bandwagon forming, which in my opinion was way too early to determine. Second votes like that happen early on all the time, and it’s usually because a player wants to put more pressure on someone, since poke votes are so a frequently used. Knowing that Sart is evil, I can see this reaction a result of them being teammates. Seonid’s goal might have been to discourage further votes on Sart in order to save his life. After a significant amount of time passes Seonid returns and votes for Sart, saying that “finding his alignment will be the most useful thing that this day could end up with” due to how much discussion was centered on Sart. This makes me lean towards village, knowing that Sart is evil, but I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a second and suggest that Sart might have told his teammates in the doc to sacrifice him, if necessary, in order to gain trust. I kinda like this theory because even with his vote on him he tries to steer the people away, notably to Strawman, who I personally think is a villager. Now that I’m rereading his first post in this night thread, where he says “I really don’t think any smart Eliminator team would throw their most powerful role under the bus like that. No amount of extra trust would be worth sacrificing that extra kill per night!” I feel that either I’m right about Sart telling his team to help lynch him and Seonid is trying to encourage that logic, or that he’s laying down a false lead for later in case he gets caught.

I'm pretty confident Lopen claimed he believed Seonid was a villager in thread, and I know without a doubt that he said so in our PM (I asked him what he thought of my analysis' and Seonid's was the only one he disagreed with at the time). So, with Seonid being revealed Darkfriend and me being completely right about him from the very first day, I could see him being evil too. Because Lopen helped kill not just the Forsaken on D1 but a Darkfriend Whitecloak on D2, it's assumed he isn't one because that would be an incredibly risky thing to do for trust. However, given many player's desire to see those two killed, I could see Lopen encouraging the mob mentality to ensure their team's long game survival, as if he did come to either's defense instead (as he did for Seonid) it could have inevitably made him look very, very bad, and I think he's smart enough to realize that. I haven't ruled him out as a Darkfriend quite yet, but he's at the bottom of my suspicions as there are currently several more players that look a lot worse.

Anyway, since no player can have two roles (I.E. Fain AND Aiel-Blooded) that is why some players are ruled out as not Padan but maybe Darkfriend. I have not even begun to legitimately consider who has been Corrupted yet, as I think we need to figure out who Fain is first to get an idea of who they would go for on the very first night, as it very likely was a choice that had nothing to do with roles. I, for example, would have very likely corrupted Stink or Jaime if I was Padan, even before knowing Stink was a Thief-Taker and Jaimee a Ta'veren.

That being said, since we know Hael was successfully redirected to Rubiks, we could lynch the latter player instead. If it turns out he was Corrupted that just about proves that Aonar is Padan Fain. The only reason I suggested the opposite first, however, is because I'd rather kill Padan first just in case he has a third Corruption in store.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Mailliw73 he/him]

31 minutes ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Aonar, once I get back to my laptop, I was actually planning on doing a very detailed list of what we know of each players roles and how likely it is that they're telling the truth(and what proof there is to back up the claims). There's fairly good proof for most players roles though. Me, Aman, you, and Winter are the only really unaccounted for players, I believe.

Edit: Maill, it's a pretty sure thing that Meta isn't Fain at least, right?

Oh, and if there's only 4 darkfriends, Meta can't be one because he was just detained by Sheep.

Wait, who was the one who detained him when there was a corruption? 

Yes, but 4 of 27 is very unlikely, I think. I mean, I guess that's what they had last game, and it's because of Fain, but I still think 4 is pretty low. Though I won't rule it out. I just don't know that we'd have gotten all 3 Dreamwalkers.

26 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

@TheMightyLopen Yes please do, thanks.  I could really use a good summary of what's public knowledge. I should've spent a bit more time reading over things before Hael had to leave. (Question, if you're not accounted for, why is no one suspicious of you? )

I am, I'm just more suspicious of the others. Though, on that note, I'm not opposed to a lynch on Lopen either.

[Amanuensis he/him]

On 6/17/2016 at 5:00 AM, Gamma Fiend said:

Somebody was detained!
Hellscythe was killed by Wolves! He was a Village Warder!
Bard was killed by Darkfriends! He was a Village Channeler!
Araris died by lack of Warder! He was a Village Channeler!
Rubik was attacked by a Fireball! He survived.
Somebody was Corrupted by Mashadar during the night.

 

On 6/17/2016 at 2:01 PM, AliasSheep said:

I detained Meta last night.  To be honest, I was exhausted and wanted to do something, so kind of a low-reasoning decision.

 

[Mailliw73 he/him]

3 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

 

 

That would prove him, if we assume there's only one DF left, yes. So, I guess we might as well. Is there any other proof that he's not a DF? Meta. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

1 minute ago, Mailliw73 said:

That would prove him, if we assume there's only one DF left, yes. So, I guess we might as well. Is there any other proof that he's not a DF? Meta. 

Not that I'm aware of, no. Though I will be incredibly surprised if there are 5 Darkfriends, what with Padan & Posse running around.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

42 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Not that I'm aware of, no. Though I will be incredibly surprised if there are 5 Darkfriends, what with Padan & Posse running around.

Eh, it's no guarantee and a 14% evil team is really low. I'd make it 5 for sure. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

6 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

Eh, it's no guarantee and a 14% evil team is really low. I'd make it 5 for sure. 

The reasoning behind them not having more than four members is because there's a secondary faction of eliminators. Having 18 villagers versus 9 eliminators (if Padan has 3 conversions that all land on villagers and the Forsaken has 4 Darkfriends) just seems like too much to me. I am more inclined to believe the Darkfriends and Corrupted are balanced in numbers than otherwise. Needless to say, it's possible I could be wrong, but I think that's a hurdle we need to leap when we find the fourth Darkfriend and Padan / his Corrupted. If Darkfriend kills still occur or the game doesn't end, THEN we should worry about that.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Amanuensis
Edited then to than

[jaimeleecee she/her]

Is it possible that a protection from Hael got redirected on to Rubiks?? Even if Rubiks is Aiel he could have been protected and we wouldn't necessarily know that. I mean there's lot of things we wouldn't have seen. I'm not really sure how I feel about lynching someone just to see if they are Fain without good enough proof to support it.. I'm not saying I trust him, because I don't have enough information either way, but rationally here's my thinking: We haven't seen any Wisdoms die yet, no vanilla players, and only one viewer I think it's possible that if Hael didn't throw the fireball he could have done any number of things we wouldn't have necessarily seen even if it wasn't a protection. It would suck to loose another valuable village role just to see.  (I'm trying to be extra careful to make up for my screw up last lynch). I could also see the advantage of playing it neutral If you are a viewer or a wisdom because you would be a huge target to DFs or for corruption.  At the same time I know most of us have to die eventually anyway, that's the nature of the game, but still it just seems like a really risky move. 

I understand that Winter could not be Fain.. But if there is more than 4 DFs she could very well be one even if she is inactive.  I'd also rather lose a villager that's not contributing anyway than someone who could potentially be useful. 

[Mailliw73 he/him]

@jaimeleecee Twei was the Wisdom. So we have lost one. I'm not sure I'd trust any living ones to not be DFs. 

[jaimeleecee she/her]

Bah you're right I forgot about that.. So much to remember  regardless I think my argument is still valid, even if the chance of wisdom is slim. If he is something useful I could see him wanting to protect that information for as long as possible. I would want to PM about that more and give him a chance to explain himself. Where losing someone who is potentially either, but is not contributing anyway seems like a safer move. Of course that is only my opinion, but it's my rational for keeping my vote where it is for now. 

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2016 by jaimeleecee

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

5 hours ago, Aonar Faileas said:

@TheMightyLopen Yes please do, thanks.  I could really use a good summary of what's public knowledge. I should've spent a bit more time reading over things before Hael had to leave. (Question, if you're not accounted for, why is no one suspicious of you? )

Okay, here it is.

And to answer your question, I'm confirmed not to be Fain because I was Detained by Conquestor(a now dead villager) when someone was Corrupted(Night 1). As for me being a Darkfriend or not, I'm not cleared of that, which is why I listed myself. I helped lynch Sart and Gunshy, but I did think Seonid was village, like Aman said. I actually defended him from Meta and Aman a bit(whoops). And I'm Aiel-Blooded, which means I can't take an Action to clear myself of using the DF kill.

Here's the basic list. Hopefully I haven't forgotten anything too important:

1. Mailliw - Confirmed not to be Fain by one of Stink's scans. I know what role he is, and I don't think he's a DF. We don't have confirmation of his Action for the previous Night.
2. Aman - Aiel-Blooded(claim, no proof).
3. Joe - Ta'veren. Claim by Nyali(who Joe is pinch hitting for) and it's pretty much 100% proven by...stuff. 
4. Sheep - Scanned by village Viewer(Straw) as village Whitecloak(confirmed). He's our top cleared player, except he may have just been Corrupted I guess.
5. Elodin - Claimed Dreamwalker(very likely) on what, Night 1 I think? He was attacked by a Wolf-Brother(confirmed by a contact) to confirm his role. Since it appears there are no DF Channelers, that claim is almost certain, though his Action for the previous Night hasn't been confirmed. But, he's not likely a DF in my opinion and he's definitely not Fain, because he was Detained on Night 1 by Sheep.
6. Aonar - I don't believe Hael claimed to anyone, although Joe redirected his ability to Rubik apparently, and Hael confirmed he did target Rubik with something(although if Joe got Corrupted, it might all be a lie and Rubik isn't Corrupted even though both Joe and Hael claimed his action was redirected to him). So - Unconfirmed role.
7. Meta - Claims Dreamwalker(very likely). Targeted by Seonid on Night 1(supposedly), which failed. I'm pretty sure he got targeted by someone else, but can't remember at the moment. Will come back to this, but I think it's almost certain he's a Dreamwalker. Plus he was just Detained by a confirmed villager(at the time of Sheeps order he was cleared at least), so we know he's not Fain or the DF who killed someone just now.
8. Winter - Claimed to me. I don't think I need to reveal her role because she wasn't online during the time when someone was Corrupted and a DF made a kill. So she's close to being cleared without her role being in the open.
9. Bugsy - We haven't gotten confirmation of what his role is, but supposedly he was redirected by Jaime, so I'm assuming he didn't make the DF kill at least.
10. Lopen - Aiel-Blooded(claim, no proof). I don't think anyone has even targeted me with anything this game, except for my Detainment on Night 1, so I cannot prove my role without getting attacked(which, I'd rather you not do).
11. Rubiks - Aiel-Blooded(pretty likely). He just got attacked, but survived and unless you(Aonar) protected him, he's confirmed to be Aiel-Blooded I believe. No proof for his Actions though, so I suspect he's the DF who made the last attack.
12. Stink - Claims Thief-taker(very likely). Pretty good proof as well, IMO. We know all 3 of his scans, 2 of which were on living players. Meta on Night 1 - he didn't target anyone. Mailliw on Night 2 - he targeted a player who was not Detained(relevant to prove Mailliw is not Fain, because there was no Corruption that Night). The 3rd one was supposedly on Bard. @STINK, could you tell us the results of that scan in case it's relevant somehow?. Thief-taker is a village only role.
13. Jaime - Claims Ta'veren(very likely). Unless you want to be very paranoid, her claim is most likely the truth, IMO. She claims to have targeted Conquestor at some point, and said it was successful, but that was only because Conq had a Day Action role, so he didn't target anyone during the Night, but her Action went through, so it came back as "successful" in her GM PM, so we mislynched Conquestor. It seemed very genuine to me. She defended Sart(in a very blatant way), very helpful in lynching Gunshy and I think she was suspicious of Seonid as well.

I think that's it.

Whew. I'm loving the new site right this moment. I just accidentally erased this post, but it was saved, so I don't have to type that out again. 

I'm fine with lynching either Rubik or Aonar at this point. I think Rubik is a DF and supposedly Hael targeted him with his Action during the Night, so that could give us information about whether Aonar is Fain, or if he is, whether Joe is Corrupted too. It could also give us information about who made the DF kill, if Rubik isn't a DF.

[Metacognition he/him]

I've been waiting to hear from Gamma about a few different things. Not only the questions I had for him at the beginning of the day, but also some questions I asked in PM to him (to try to draw him back to the thread to see the rest as well). A lot of my thoughts and where my vote will end up kind of depend on Gamma's answers, so I'm hoping that he'll allow for us to take in any new information (for example, if Fain is capable of having two roles. I've heard plenty of people state that idea, but I don't remember where Gamma confirmed it. If they have some form of confirmation that the rest of us haven't had, then it was either in Docs or PMs.) before the day ends. 

I like Aman's plan of lynching Aonar or Rubiks because, if he's a Villager, it can net us two birds with one stone. It could also be a ploy to buy himself another turn to convert if he is Fain though and thus why I'm not moving my vote yet. Depending on how Gamma answers a few of the questions though, I'd be willing to work with this plan. 

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

Apologies for the late responses to questions!

In regards to Orders being sent in via doc, I usually prefer and require actions sent in by PMs, but that is to say I wouldn't allow extenuating circumstances.
Padan Fain would appear as a Normal Villager if Viewed by Viewers, and is the only role they'd have.
Dragon Fangs can only be sent in by Normal Villagers, but can be blocked or changed by roles, and requires at least 2 votes for someone to get one.
Cycle is still scheduled to end at 12AM EST tonight, but if it gets delayed I shall let you know.

[Metacognition he/him]

I guess that should have been somewhat expected, as those are all non-answers.  Though they still don't actually answer my questions about whether or not Fain could have two roles.  I understand discretion, but either give us a PAFO, or stop beating around the bush. 

I'll explain what my original plan was now, just so you guys can see it. 

If Aman was capable of putting in a vote for the Dragon Fang (since his claim of Aiel-Blooded would "technically" leave him open to do so during the night turn), then I wanted to test his theory about Stink fake claiming Thief-Taker. See, that's the weakest part of his argument, IMO. Stink would already know that Aman's action would be nothing and thus could give that result whether or not Stink was a Thief-Taker or not. It wouldn't clear either of them in that right. 

So my plan was to PM Aman and have him put in an order for the Dragon Fang. If Stink caught it, then Stink is cleared. If not, then we know he's faking it. Since that's not possible, I'll continue going for my most suspected person. 

On top of that, as stated before, by lynching Aonar or Rubiks, we'd have a fair to decent chance of either confirming one as Villager or Corrupted. 

But, since Gamma is being elusive and cryptic, I'll leave my vote where it is. Aman has been pushing pretty hard for his survival in comparison to how nonchalant he's been for the last few turns, which makes me wonder about why it's now so important to him to speak up now. As an Aiel-Blooded, his reaction just comes off a bit strong to me. 

Edited June 19, 2016 by Metacognition

[STINK he/him]

Bard had visited Mailliw before, so yeah. Also, surely there could be a DF Dreamwalker. Like, it's the most easy WGG thing ever, and I'm not sure if others have raised that point.

[Amanuensis he/him]

13 hours ago, jaimeleecee said:

Is it possible that a protection from Hael got redirected on to Rubiks?? Even if Rubiks is Aiel he could have been protected and we wouldn't necessarily know that. I mean there's lot of things we wouldn't have seen. I'm not really sure how I feel about lynching someone just to see if they are Fain without good enough proof to support it.. I'm not saying I trust him, because I don't have enough information either way, but rationally here's my thinking: We haven't seen any Wisdoms die yet, no vanilla players, and only one viewer I think it's possible that if Hael didn't throw the fireball he could have done any number of things we wouldn't have necessarily seen even if it wasn't a protection. It would suck to loose another valuable village role just to see.  (I'm trying to be extra careful to make up for my screw up last lynch). I could also see the advantage of playing it neutral If you are a viewer or a wisdom because you would be a huge target to DFs or for corruption.  At the same time I know most of us have to die eventually anyway, that's the nature of the game, but still it just seems like a really risky move. 

I understand that Winter could not be Fain.. But if there is more than 4 DFs she could very well be one even if she is inactive.  I'd also rather lose a villager that's not contributing anyway than someone who could potentially be useful. 

Is it possible? Yes. Do I personally believe it's likely? No. At this point we are aware of enough roles through player deaths and provable claims that we can begin to make some logical guesses on role distribution as a whole. For example, Wolfsiblings and Thief-Takers are confirmed village roles, and apparently we started with four of them. To balance two guaranteed-good village kill roles the Darkfriends would need some form of protection from them. I would probably give them a Wisdom for that reason, so they can be more malleable with who gets to survive in case a specific player accumulates enough suspicion to warrant an attack, but at this point in time it seems more likely they have an Aiel-Blooded or a Dreamwalker. While I'm aware the Darkfriends had a Whitecloak as well (that can work as a protection) I personally do not believe that would be Gamma's answer for a counter, as it would also force said player to not be able to take any actions, such as the team kill or the Ta'veren redirect.

Tangent aside, I want to point out that anyone who votes for me is doing the exact same thing you seem to put yourself against, which is "lynching someone just to see if they are Fain without good enough proof to support it." There is zero proof that I am Padan or a Darkfriend (in fact, it's unlikely I am compared to Rubiks or Aonar because as Lopen so kindly pointed out, I was last online 17 hours before turn over. Kill orders and conversion orders are very rarely put in that early in a night turn. Is it possible I was smart enough to be preemptive about it? Yes. But what actually happened was I got online to ask Gamma a question in our PM because I woke up that morning with a theory that I wanted to present, but it required understanding the Viewer role better and I didn't want to waste my time proposing something that wouldn't work anyway.

Spoiler

If you're interested, my theory was that the Darkfriends were using Seonid to redirect Straw's scans in order to ensure he didn't catch one of them. I wondered if the results PM would just say the role/alignment they learned and not the identity of their new scan target (I.E. "Your target is a Whitecloak) or if it would tell them who they scanned (AliasSheep is a Whitecloak). My reasoning for this line of thinking was because at the time there was no evidence to support that Sheep was indeed a Whitecloak and I didn't think Gamma would give the village two of them. My theory was Sheep was teammates with Seonid and decided to go along with the claim because it made him look innocent, allowing him to play a long con, especially after they murdered Straw. Gamma quickly told me that the Viewer would be told the identity of their new target in the results PM, and therefore be aware of when they are manipulated, so I went back to focusing on completing my inspection (with flying colors I might add).

Lastly, in my opinion, lynching Winter is utterly pointless right now. A: It is extremely unlikely she was Corrupted N1 because she already had a significant number of people voicing concerns about her. B: It is extremely unlikely she was Corrupted last night because she's been inactive for a while and why would Padan want an inactive teammate. C: She is proven to not be Padan because she did not log on at all during the Night Turn in which someone was Corrupted. D: I don't believe she is a 5th Darkfriend (let alone that there is one at all) because there is no evidence to suggest one exists, especially if you consider they began with an extra kill, a detainment and a redirect, on top of the fact that there's a second eliminator faction with at least three members. When there is evidence pointing at other people why waste a turn going after something that nets the village little-to-no-gain and that is based on a possibility as weak as there might be 5 Darkfriends. If there is I'd much rather focus on the active Darkfriend who is actually killing us, rather than the one who can't do anything to harm us.

13 hours ago, jaimeleecee said:

Bah you're right I forgot about that.. So much to remember  regardless I think my argument is still valid, even if the chance of wisdom is slim. If he is something useful I could see him wanting to protect that information for as long as possible. I would want to PM about that more and give him a chance to explain himself. Where losing someone who is potentially either, but is not contributing anyway seems like a safer move. Of course that is only my opinion, but it's my rational for keeping my vote where it is for now. 

Honestly I get the impression that you're reaching for some straws here, which supports my theory that you were the target of Corruption N1. Knowing your role or not, you were very helpful and active from the beginning, and being brand new you have the advantage of no one knowing how you would play and if you did make a slip up it wouldn't be hard to dismiss it as "I'm new and failing to understand things." That's my logic, at least (on top of the fact that you know a lot about the Wheel of Time which would make conversing in a doc with you fun, and that since you're brand new it would be a good way to help familiarize yourself with our community so that hopefully you stick around to play more games, since personally I've noticed that there's often a new player every game but for one reason or another most don't play again afterwards, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed it). Given that you're doing this in support of Aonar without directly saying his name makes me also believe that I'm right about him being Padan, which as far as I'm concerned can only be him, you or Bugsy.

4 hours ago, Metacognition said:

But, since Gamma is being elusive and cryptic, I'll leave my vote where it is. Aman has been pushing pretty hard for his survival in comparison to how nonchalant he's been for the last few turns, which makes me wonder about why it's now so important to him to speak up now. As an Aiel-Blooded, his reaction just comes off a bit strong to me. 

I do not mind being lynched to prove I'm not Padan. But if you're going to waste my extra life like that when there are much better options (discovering that I'm Aiel-Blooded tells no one anything about another person's alignment, unlike Aonar/Rubiks) I would like to at least be Detained so that I have a chance of being cleared from being the last Darkfriend while also being protected. Personally I would like to survive a game as a villager for once (look at my record, literally never have) and I feel that we're getting way too close to the part of the game that a day turn wasted on a player who can't die from it will not help the village and in fact do the exact opposite of what you're intending here. If we let Padan live tonight and he has a third Corruption it's going to get used, whether or not we have the Wolfbrother attack him, which will only make the village's job that much harder, especially since by making these public plans for detentions we're basically spelling out for him who he can take and who he can't.

Plus, given the fact that only Lopen has spoken up for me this turn (I believe he said he's still getting villager vibes from my posts), that should suggest that I'm a villager, should it not? Just like you stuck with lynching Sart because of how much opposition formed against the lynch, isn't the lack of the same thing happening for me telling of the opposite? Padan and Posse know I'm not among their numbers. They couldn't care less if I'm the last Darkfriend, and the last Darkfriend knows I'm not that. So why would they not encourage my lynch? Especially if the majority already seems intent on letting it happen, even when there's no evidence to suggest I belong to either eliminator faction.

Seriously. Look at the reasons people have voted for me.

• Mailliw doesn't know my role (We don't know Aonar's role either)
• Bugsy because I'm on both lists for potential Padan and Darkfriend (only valid one, in my opinion)
• Joe: Doesn't see the point in lynching Winter (doesn't mention Hael/Aonar though)
• Meta: Aman is pushing for his survival (not indicative of alignment either way)

If we lynch Aonar or Rubiks we are guaranteed to learn something about the other player. If you lynch me I'll survive and you learn nothing about anyone else. That right there should be reason enough to choose him for the lynch, and if you want to prove my Aiel-Bloodedness so bad just detain me and lynch me tomorrow if I'm wrong about Aonar/Rubiks. I'm literally harmless detained, not that there's anything I can do to harm anyone anyway.

 

@AliasSheep Did you get Corrupted? When you got converted to Hoid in the last LG I noticed a significant drop in your activity in favor of your newly obtained doc, and I can't help but notice you're being similarly quiet now. You've got to have some kind of stance on what's been discussed this turn so far.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Amanuensis
Poking sheep

[AliasSheep]

1 hour ago, Amanuensis said:

Is it possible? Yes. Do I personally believe it's likely? No. At this point we are aware of enough roles through player deaths and provable claims that we can begin to make some logical guesses on role distribution as a whole. For example, Wolfsiblings and Thief-Takers are confirmed village roles, and apparently we started with four of them. To balance two guaranteed-good village kill roles the Darkfriends would need some form of protection from them. I would probably give them a Wisdom for that reason, so they can be more malleable with who gets to survive in case a specific player accumulates enough suspicion to warrant an attack, but at this point in time it seems more likely they have an Aiel-Blooded or a Dreamwalker. While I'm aware the Darkfriends had a Whitecloak as well (that can work as a protection) I personally do not believe that would be Gamma's answer for a counter, as it would also force said player to not be able to take any actions, such as the team kill or the Ta'veren redirect.

Tangent aside, I want to point out that anyone who votes for me is doing the exact same thing you seem to put yourself against, which is "lynching someone just to see if they are Fain without good enough proof to support it." There is zero proof that I am Padan or a Darkfriend (in fact, it's unlikely I am compared to Rubiks or Aonar because as Lopen so kindly pointed out, I was last online 17 hours before turn over. Kill orders and conversion orders are very rarely put in that early in a night turn. Is it possible I was smart enough to be preemptive about it? Yes. But what actually happened was I got online to ask Gamma a question in our PM because I woke up that morning with a theory that I wanted to present, but it required understanding the Viewer role better and I didn't want to waste my time proposing something that wouldn't work anyway.

  Reveal hidden contents

If you're interested, my theory was that the Darkfriends were using Seonid to redirect Straw's scans in order to ensure he didn't catch one of them. I wondered if the results PM would just say the role/alignment they learned and not the identity of their new scan target (I.E. "Your target is a Whitecloak) or if it would tell them who they scanned (AliasSheep is a Whitecloak). My reasoning for this line of thinking was because at the time there was no evidence to support that Sheep was indeed a Whitecloak and I didn't think Gamma would give the village two of them. My theory was Sheep was teammates with Seonid and decided to go along with the claim because it made him look innocent, allowing him to play a long con, especially after they murdered Straw. Gamma quickly told me that the Viewer would be told the identity of their new target in the results PM, and therefore be aware of when they are manipulated, so I went back to focusing on completing my inspection (with flying colors I might add).

Lastly, in my opinion, lynching Winter is utterly pointless right now. A: It is extremely unlikely she was Corrupted N1 because she already had a significant number of people voicing concerns about her. B: It is extremely unlikely she was Corrupted last night because she's been inactive for a while and why would Padan want an inactive teammate. C: She is proven to not be Padan because she did not log on at all during the Night Turn in which someone was Corrupted. D: I don't believe she is a 5th Darkfriend (let alone that there is one at all) because there is no evidence to suggest one exists, especially if you consider they began with an extra kill, a detainment and a redirect, on top of the fact that there's a second eliminator faction with at least three members. When there is evidence pointing at other people why waste a turn going after something that nets the village little-to-no-gain and that is based on a possibility as weak as there might be 5 Darkfriends. If there is I'd much rather focus on the active Darkfriend who is actually killing us, rather than the one who can't do anything to harm us.

Honestly I get the impression that you're reaching for some straws here, which supports my theory that you were the target of Corruption N1. Knowing your role or not, you were very helpful and active from the beginning, and being brand new you have the advantage of no one knowing how you would play and if you did make a slip up it wouldn't be hard to dismiss it as "I'm new and failing to understand things." That's my logic, at least (on top of the fact that you know a lot about the Wheel of Time which would make conversing in a doc with you fun, and that since you're brand new it would be a good way to help familiarize yourself with our community so that hopefully you stick around to play more games, since personally I've noticed that there's often a new player every game but for one reason or another most don't play again afterwards, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed it). Given that you're doing this in support of Aonar without directly saying his name makes me also believe that I'm right about him being Padan, which as far as I'm concerned can only be him, you or Bugsy.

I do not mind being lynched to prove I'm not Padan. But if you're going to waste my extra life like that when there are much better options (discovering that I'm Aiel-Blooded tells no one anything about another person's alignment, unlike Aonar/Rubiks) I would like to at least be Detained so that I have a chance of being cleared from being the last Darkfriend while also being protected. Personally I would like to survive a game as a villager for once (look at my record, literally never have) and I feel that we're getting way too close to the part of the game that a day turn wasted on a player who can't die from it will not help the village and in fact do the exact opposite of what you're intending here. If we let Padan live tonight and he has a third Corruption it's going to get used, whether or not we have the Wolfbrother attack him, which will only make the village's job that much harder, especially since by making these public plans for detentions we're basically spelling out for him who he can take and who he can't.

Plus, given the fact that only Lopen has spoken up for me this turn (I believe he said he's still getting villager vibes from my posts), that should suggest that I'm a villager, should it not? Just like you stuck with lynching Sart because of how much opposition formed against the lynch, isn't the lack of the same thing happening for me telling of the opposite? Padan and Posse know I'm not among their numbers. They couldn't care less if I'm the last Darkfriend, and the last Darkfriend knows I'm not that. So why would they not encourage my lynch? Especially if the majority already seems intent on letting it happen, even when there's no evidence to suggest I belong to either eliminator faction.

Seriously. Look at the reasons people have voted for me.

• Mailliw doesn't know my role (We don't know Aonar's role either)
• Bugsy because I'm on both lists for potential Padan and Darkfriend (only valid one, in my opinion)
• Joe: Doesn't see the point in lynching Winter (doesn't mention Hael/Aonar though)
• Meta: Aman is pushing for his survival (not indicative of alignment either way)

If we lynch Aonar or Rubiks we are guaranteed to learn something about the other player. If you lynch me I'll survive and you learn nothing about anyone else. That right there should be reason enough to choose him for the lynch, and if you want to prove my Aiel-Bloodedness so bad just detain me and lynch me tomorrow if I'm wrong about Aonar/Rubiks. I'm literally harmless detained, not that there's anything I can do to harm anyone anyway.

 

@AliasSheep Did you get Corrupted? When you got converted to Hoid in the last LG I noticed a significant drop in your activity in favor of your newly obtained doc, and I can't help but notice you're being similarly quiet now. You've got to have some kind of stance on what's been discussed this turn so far.

I've been quiet for a while now.  I was on a school trip and the game kind of got out from under my feet and now I'm not sure how to catch up, meaning I haven't really read anything.

 

No, I haven't been Corrupted.

[Amanuensis he/him]

28 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

I've been quiet for a while now.  I was on a school trip and the game kind of got out from under my feet and now I'm not sure how to catch up, meaning I haven't really read anything.

 

No, I haven't been Corrupted.

Would it be too much trouble for me to ask you to give it a shot? If you're not Corrupted that means you're one of the most confirmed players and therefore your vote and your opinion is a lot more important than most others. If not, can I at least ask you to detain me this cycle, regardless of if people decide to lynch me or not?

 

@STINK You have any opinion on Aonar, Rubiks or me? I know you're online, so there should be nothing keeping you from responding.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Amanuensis
Poking STINK

[STINK he/him]

Um yeah sure let me go through my thoughts I guess.

Ada: Claimed 2 lives early, kinda died for a bit, has come back with really long posts. 

Aonar: Well he's just come in, and I didn't really have any interaction with Hael, so I guess I really have like nothing about him.

Rubiks: In our PM, he was happy to like never talk about the game. Out of PM, I dunno I can't remember most of the thread what with exams and all.

There ya go Ada how's that I know its not a page or whatever but we all can't write an essay for every post.