Long Game 23: The Siege of Luthadel

[Paranoid King he/him]

Oh boy, now I want to start an analyst's union. Our Motto: "We have so much writing and we never agree on anything."

It would be great.

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

Now Kipper has already declared himself against this, but I wonder if there is an argument to be made for the revealing of faction lists.

Yes, it does compromise our own factions, and remove a potential advantage in the faction war, but it simultaneously gives us an advantage against the inquisitor - rather than leaving it to a single faction to identify inconsistencies in voting patterns, instead all of us can do so.

I would argue that the parallels with MR7 are not accurate. The lesson some of us seem to have learnt from MR7 is not to focus on the 'hidden faction'. Were MR7 to be replayed, this would be the correct lesson to learn. However, this is not MR7. The eliminator faction grows in strength, potentially each cycle, has the advantage of ever increasing intelligence, and the potential to hit back. 

It's all very well protecting our individual factions, but I fear this will devolve into a tragedy of the commons scenario - where our individual interests differ from the common interest, and by ignoring the common good, we all lose.

Consequently, I am staunchly in support of a consistent focus on the inquisitor, and the revealing of faction lists.

[Paranoid King he/him]

5 minutes ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

Consequently, I am staunchly in support of a consistent focus on the inquisitor, and the revealing of faction lists.

I think I'll have to agree. The inquisitor is the only one who doesn't gain info from faction lists being revealed (The reason being, he'll convert people and know faction lists soon anyways.) My vote's going towards open faction lists.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

So the last faction game that I played, the GM got mad because we all went after the hidden faction, and there was a conversion mechanic that players found a little confusing to balance with their win conditions.

I'm uncomfortable with revealing faction lists right now, since it is a bit early in the game, and it is something we can't undo. So I'll need some time to think about whether I think it should be done in the long run.

[jaimeleecee she/her]

I think it is entirely possible for us to work together to weed out the inquisitor and/or spiked, without giving away that information.  

It would also take away a huge part of the game, which is the factions themselves, and the various roles/mechanics that are designed to help figure out who is who and where they fit.  

And realistically, it would really take away from the fun of all of that!! 

[Amanuensis he/him]

41 minutes ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

Now Kipper has already declared himself against this, but I wonder if there is an argument to be made for the revealing of faction lists.

Yes, it does compromise our own factions, and remove a potential advantage in the faction war, but it simultaneously gives us an advantage against the inquisitor - rather than leaving it to a single faction to identify inconsistencies in voting patterns, instead all of us can do so.

I would argue that the parallels with MR7 are not accurate. The lesson some of us seem to have learnt from MR7 is not to focus on the 'hidden faction'. Were MR7 to be replayed, this would be the correct lesson to learn. However, this is not MR7. The eliminator faction grows in strength, potentially each cycle, has the advantage of ever increasing intelligence, and the potential to hit back. 

It's all very well protecting our individual factions, but I fear this will devolve into a tragedy of the commons scenario - where our individual interests differ from the common interest, and by ignoring the common good, we all lose.

Consequently, I am staunchly in support of a consistent focus on the inquisitor, and the revealing of faction lists.

After weighing the advantages / disadvantages in my head, I believe that the latter far outweigh the former, and for that reason I'm going to say no. I don't think voting patterns are going to be the primary indicator of alignment this game. It's going to be general actions players make that contradict the plans and interests of their individual faction. Just knowing a player's faction's members doesn't give us any real context behind their votes, except when they come to defend one another, and I'm very concerned that if we allow such a thing to occur, a couple Houses might get the idea to gang up the one with the least number of players to increase the odds of them coming out victorious in the end. If this doesn't occur, I can foresee lynch standoffs occurring, where since every player is known anyway they all just vote together and as a result the lynch becomes pointless due to ties. In my opinion, something like that happening is exactly what the Inquisitors would want, as it would give players the means to focus on the four known factions as opposed to the one unknown.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Amanuensis
Added a line

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I'm completely against revealing faction lists and will consider anyone in my House who does so a traitor to the House. Sorry, but that's how it is. 

[Arrae]

48 minutes ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

Now Kipper has already declared himself against this, but I wonder if there is an argument to be made for the revealing of faction lists.

Yes, it does compromise our own factions, and remove a potential advantage in the faction war, but it simultaneously gives us an advantage against the inquisitor - rather than leaving it to a single faction to identify inconsistencies in voting patterns, instead all of us can do so.

I would argue that the parallels with MR7 are not accurate. The lesson some of us seem to have learnt from MR7 is not to focus on the 'hidden faction'. Were MR7 to be replayed, this would be the correct lesson to learn. However, this is not MR7. The eliminator faction grows in strength, potentially each cycle, has the advantage of ever increasing intelligence, and the potential to hit back. 

It's all very well protecting our individual factions, but I fear this will devolve into a tragedy of the commons scenario - where our individual interests differ from the common interest, and by ignoring the common good, we all lose.

Consequently, I am staunchly in support of a consistent focus on the inquisitor, and the revealing of faction lists.

Why do we need to know each other’s factions in order to analyze inconsistent voting?

I personally fear this will devolve into a bad game of prisoner’s dilemma, where some people do things for the common good, and other people take advantage of it. In this case, some factions might reveal their members, only to be vulnerable to vigilantes from factions who don’t. I don't know how likely it is, but looking at people's positions, I think at least one faction would try to hold out, which would bring factional hostilities to the center of attention with absolutely no benefit.

[A Joe in the Bush]

Instead of revealing Faction lists, which I'm against, what if each faction were to nominate one of their memebers to reveal their faction, and act as that faction's spokesperson, so that the specific factions could put their group's opinions out there?

[Amanuensis he/him]

6 minutes ago, The Only Joe said:

 

Instead of revealing Faction lists, which I'm against, what if each faction were to nominate one of their memebers to reveal their faction, and act as that faction's spokesperson, so that the specific factions could put their group's opinions out there?

We had a discussion about this in my doc too. My primary question is, what benefit do we get from this that we wouldn't be able to compensate for otherwise? I just don't really see the point, and feel it paints a target on the spokesperson's back. All an opposite faction member or the Inquisitor has to do is kill one of those players, whether it's tactically sound at the time or just because they want to cause chaos, and then if that faction wants to continue to have their voice heard they'll have to elect another member and so on, so forth. I just don't see that ending well, and am uncomfortable putting any member of my faction at unnecessary risk. I think each faction should be able to do fine at rooting out potential Spiked in their team by following the tips I provided earlier, while we can all play this game as it was meant to, earning money to buy koloss to dwindle other faction's numbers while employing kandra to gather info.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

That idea also came up in my House. I'm much more okay with it than revealing full lists. 

[jaimeleecee she/her]

I have to go with Aman on this one...

I also think that it would make it hard for each of us to individually put our opinions into thread without potentially giving away whose side we are on.  Everyone contributing to thread is important for game play too, with the boxings system and all.  For that reason, as well as the others Aman stated already, I just don't think it would work. 

[Renegade he/him]

An hour and nine minutes left before Night 0 ends!

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Arraenae said:

Disclaimer: I hereby do not apologize for any persons accused in the writing of this post.

@Kipper, where did I mention factions giving up info to the thread, let alone giving up memberlists? I only suggested trying to kill the Inquisitor first, which would save us all headaches from wondering if we can trust our own Housemates.

Also, this is a night cycle, so votes don’t count. You’re smarter than this, lil Kipper-wipper. Are you trying to make a strawman out of my post? (And you’re not in my faction either, so have a pointless return vote. )

The last part of my post was not replying to you. 10/10 copying of my post.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Master Elodin said:

Nyali and Aman, you guys seem to be talking to each other a lot.. you're probably in the same faction. Anyways, I'll go ahead and claim Coinshot, partly or possibly wholly to annoy Nyali.

 

EDIT: Yay! Let's kill Kipper!

Go away.

 

 

3 hours ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

Now Kipper has already declared himself against this, but I wonder if there is an argument to be made for the revealing of faction lists.

Yes, it does compromise our own factions, and remove a potential advantage in the faction war, but it simultaneously gives us an advantage against the inquisitor - rather than leaving it to a single faction to identify inconsistencies in voting patterns, instead all of us can do so.

I would argue that the parallels with MR7 are not accurate. The lesson some of us seem to have learnt from MR7 is not to focus on the 'hidden faction'. Were MR7 to be replayed, this would be the correct lesson to learn. However, this is not MR7. The eliminator faction grows in strength, potentially each cycle, has the advantage of ever increasing intelligence, and the potential to hit back. 

It's all very well protecting our individual factions, but I fear this will devolve into a tragedy of the commons scenario - where our individual interests differ from the common interest, and by ignoring the common good, we all lose.

Consequently, I am staunchly in support of a consistent focus on the inquisitor, and the revealing of faction lists.

What is the "common good?" It's easy to throw around nice-sounding rhetoric, but where is the "common good?" This game will definitely "devolve" into a bloodbath scenario, because that's what the game is designed to do. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The people who are suggesting that everyone work together for the "common good" are going to be the first to backstab you in the end.

Also, I agree that analogies to MR7 are somewhat unfair, but no analogy is perfect.

Re: the discussion on revealing faction lists, what actual advantage do we get from knowing everyone's faction? ~0. The Inquisitor gains an advantage by knowing which people he needs to Spike to infiltrate every faction, but we don't gain any useful knowledge.

 

TL;DR There is no common good in this game.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

2 minutes ago, Kipper said:

TL;DR There is no common good in this game.

Thank you! Someone else who understands.

Though I don't agree with "The people who are suggesting that everyone work together for the "common good" are going to be the first to backstab you in the end." Have you played a faction game with El?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Mailliw73 said:

Thank you! Someone else who understands.

Though I don't agree with "The people who are suggesting that everyone work together for the "common good" are going to be the first to backstab you in the end." Have you played a faction game with El?

...I suppose I may have been projecting your tendencies onto everyone. You have my sincere apologies.

[TheSilverDragon he/him]

So, I agree that going after the elimination faction first is a good thing, but I'm still going to put time and effort into winning as a faction, cause that's the end goal and all.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

21 minutes ago, Kipper said:

...I suppose I may have been projecting your tendencies onto everyone. You have my sincere apologies.

Well, if I had been saying that, then yes. But I'm completely against it, so...  My tendencies aren't bad, as you, my protegé Info Broker have learned.

[Renegade he/him]

 

Day 1: On the Eve of Battle

We knew that plans were brewing in the minds of the other leaders -- Straff Venture, Ashweather Cett, Jastes Lekal, and Ferson Penrod -- but we had no idea as to the extent to which they planned.  In retrospect, we were almost certainly doomed from the start.

 

A Steel Inquisitor looked out over the slums of Luthadel.  Below, a small figure exited a nearby dwelling, a cloak hiding their face.  They glanced furtively about, then scampered off.

That’s your target, the voice spoke in the Inquisitor’s ear.  Subdue them.  The Inquisitor nodded and jumped off the building onto the ground below, running off in pursuit.

- - - - -

Straff Venture looked up at the walls of Luthadel that stood before him in the mists of the night.  Thinking about the fact that his own son -- his own son -- had somehow slipped control of such a mighty city made him sick.  It won’t be his for long, Straff thought to himself, coughing.  “Gah!  Where is Amaranta?”

“She’s off on the other side of the camp, my liege,” an officer spoke.

“Then tell her to get over here!” Straff roared.  “What is she even doing off there?”

The officer quickly saluted and ran off into the large maze of tents that comprised the Venture encampment.  The Venture soldiers were not in their finest form, many of them laughing uncontrollably and falling over in a drunken stupor.  This would simply not do.  The attack on the city had to begin soon.

Straff breathed in the night air, then burned tin, piercing through the thick, roiling mists.  To the southwest, Cett’s encampment was illuminated by a great number of torches, though there were noticeable indications that Cett had been mobilizing his army for combat.  Few men seemed to be sitting around; most were walking about the camp, likely setting up siege engines and supplying the Allomancers’ incoming shipments of metal.  Cett did, of course, have control over the canals of the Western Dominance.

To the east, Lekal seemed to be in a similar situation, their troops shuffling about the camp, delivering various materials to different locations.  Straff wasn’t sure how the fool lad had managed to commandeer such a large army as quickly as he did; the boy could hardly say his own name, yet he’d somehow rallied those idiots to his cause.  No matter, they’d be easy to eliminate.

“Any news as to the state of the other camps?” Straff shouted to one of his advisors.

“They appear to be on the eve of battle, my liege.  They have certainly been preparing to strike soon, before your son can manage to find any reinforcements to reach Luthadel.”

Straff snorted.  “Reinforcements?  And how is any army going to get past our encampments and into Luthadel?”

“They do not need to; if they slip into our camps, they may be able to kill our men from the inside.”

“Bah,” Straff waved a hand dismissively, extinguishing his tin.  “That’s a risk we’ll have to take.  I think we shall wait.”

“Wait, sire?”

“Yes, wait for one of them to draw the first blood.”

- - - - -

Someone has been spiked by the Steel Inquisitor!

Day 1 begins now and will end in 47 hours. Remember: only copper and brass may be used during the Day turn.  Good luck!

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Let's start this for real. Joe.

[Guest]

I'm good with that. Joe, may he rest in piece.

Arraenae, just in case I need to retract that.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Guest

[cloudjumper he/him]

12 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

Let's start this for real. Joe.

Maill, could you explain why you voted for Joe? Or is this just a poke vote?

Edited June 29, 2016 by cloudjumper

[Renegade he/him]

The "Canton of Information" chart in each faction doc should now be updated to reflect your current boxing, koloss, and kandra totals.

Also, 2 more clarifications:

• You will not be informed of which factions attacked your faction, or how many koloss they sent. You will just have to deduce this from your number of koloss after a night is over.
• The Inquisitor cannot Spike the same person more than once.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Renegade
Added another clarification

[Mailliw73 he/him]

15 minutes ago, cloudjumper said:

Maill, could you explain why you voted for Joe? Or is this just a poke vote?

Does it matter? It's impossible to have any real reason at this point. 

[Mailliw73 he/him]

@Arraenae @Alvron @jaimeleecee Anything to say? Or are you all too busy planning to take out Venture?