Mid-Range Game 15: The Dula Revolution

[Elbereth she/her]

14 hours ago, Eolhondras said:

I think its a given that we'll be electing cloud this night cycle, and eramit will be lynched tomorrow, so my focus wont be on them.

This is an excellent point, which brings up the corollary: what are we going to do tomorrow? Lynch eramit, yes. But that will be rather useless. And we need discussion. Which we haven't had any of tonight. Let's not keep that trend going. 

So I'm definitely proposing that the thread votes for who to scan tomorrow. That's the only thing I can think of to keep the discussion going. 

11 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

By the way, I disagree strongly about that point you made. There's one doc. We need to make sure it's completely secure. Once it's been contaminated, the whole doc is worth nothing. Don't add someone unless you're certain.

I highly disagree with this. Once it's been contaminated, it's not worth nothing! That doc is nice for confirmed villagers plotting, yes, but there's also a second use for it: finding eliminators. As I've mentioned before, I think docs are much better places to find eliminators than thread. Part of that's for the same reason that PMs are: because they're more one-on-one. The eliminator feels much less pressure to say exactly the right thing in front of the eyes of everyone else, and they're much more likely to try to manipulate you in a private setting. The other part of the reason is that docs are realtime. So the eliminator has to get it right, immediately, when they're talking to someone. They don't have time to deliberate on a response. So that makes it much easier to catch them, in my opinion.

So the Acolyte doc is far from useless when it's not full of confirmed good. Don't fill it with people you trust: fill it with people you want to hear more from, who you're not getting a good read on. Fill it with active people. Fill it with whoever you like. Whatever happens, it'll be a useful doc. 

11 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

Also, there is literally no difference in the power set/victory conditions of the Jeskeri and Village (except a Doc. Docs are always handy.) We've labelled one as a kind of 'second eliminator faction', but they could just as easily be seen as a 'second villager faction'. In which case, there could be just as many Jeskeri as Villagers, or only slightly fewer, to compensate for the doc.

As Eol said - no. They're not a second village faction. They have a doc, and they have a kill. And they cannot win with the village. So even if they were a second village faction, which they are not, that certainly doesn't mean we should ignore them. 

10 hours ago, Eolhondras said:

If that's the case, why not request for yourself to be recalled? It would take you out of the crosshairs and the resulting bidding war to fill your seat could well be enlightening.

While I am (very much) in agreement with the rest of this post, this bit I don't agree with. It's a possibility, sure, but the potential gain doesn't outweigh the disadvantage of recalling one of the original senators, in my opinion. 

Other than that, not much to say other than: Talk! Talk! We need to talk! Just because Meta and Aman are both busy and can't really encourage discussion much right now is no excuse to fall silent. Silence kills the village. So talk! If you have nothing else to say, give a list of all the players and how suspicious/not you are of them. Or if that's too much, just the senators! There's only four of us. It's not that hard. I don't care what you say. Just talk. 

[Elenion he/him]

7 hours ago, Kipper said:

Of course, cloudjumper.

And in my opinion, we should recall Elenion. I didn't like his actions yesterday, notably being quick to hop on two bandwagons, and threaten Straw with death if Straw did not fully explain his actions (which, I should note, were identical to those of Elenion's). This is probably a bus.

I find it interesting that you point out my bandwagoning (I won't hide it; I love a good bandwagon, as long as it's for the right reasons), but yet you only throw one of five votes needed to remove me, necessitating a bandwagon if you hope to succeed. And if you think that me threatening people with death is abnormal for me, you need to read some of my threats D1. However, one of those threats did end up leading us to Eramit... And what do you mean by "bus?" As in, like, throwing someone under the bus? Or like I'm hopping on a bus full of elims? Or like I'm running people over with a bus?

33 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

Silence kills the village. So talk! If you have nothing else to say, give a list of all the players and how suspicious/not you are of them. Or if that's too much, just the senators! There's only four of us. It's not that hard. I don't care what you say. Just talk.

Well, it seems that I'm controversial enough to cause at least a bit of conversation. [see above].

And along that note, here's my suspicions:

1. Elbereth- Saoli: El is pretty good on my list overall; the Senate doc explains my views much better than I can here.

2. Mailliw- Reomaim: Maill hasn't been on much recently. I have no definite opinion.

3. Cloudjumper- Kelron: Cloud is vetted and, bar a massive conspiracy, is legit.

4. The Young Bard- The Mysterious Figure: Bard hasn't done anything to really prove himself either way, but appears reasonable enough to trust temporarily.

5. Ecthelion III- Aeleus: Ecth has been one of my most vocal critics, but seems like he has our best interests at heart.

6. Orlok- Locke: Not active enough to tell anything.

7. Elodin- oaR  Village Merchant

8. Straw- Straw: Cloudjumper's confirmation is enough for me.

9. Conquestor- Lorienthe Mysteries Cultist Landlord

10. Eramit- Kolokolo Kolo: Derethi Gyorn. Kill him immediately.

11. Metacognition- Meta: Has been critical of me at times, but hasn't stuck along for enough time to see if it's in a villager-y way.

12. emilylime- Lime: Mostly inactive, but gave me a bad vibe at the start. May be a good choice for investigation.

13. Eolhandras- Eolhandras: No opinion yet.

14. Elenion- Ashkelon: Me. Enough said.

15. Sart- Sart: Same as EmilyLime above.

16. Jaimelecee- Jaena Village Merchant

17. Amanuensis- Opalin: Aman is the most likely choice as a starting senator/elim, but hasn't done anything too suspicious yet.

18. Seonid- Sheon Idris: Not active but a bit suspicious from the gut.

19. Kipper- Kipper: Attacks me with hypocritical bandwagon attack. Not necessarily the best start, but no definite suspicions yet.

[Elbereth she/her]

'Bus' is shorthand for throwing one of your teammates under the bus, in order to gain trust for yourself.

And thanks for the list!  

[Elenion he/him]

Oh. In which case, @Kipper that is obviously not a bus. I say obviously because no real suspicion was on Eramit, only a bit of lurking followed by a poorly-executed attempt to divert suspicion, which I saw right through. Were I a Derethi, I would have assigned Eramit as a Village Merchant, a role that is both unobtrusive and hard-to-prove. No one would have been the wiser, and he might have even been elected. Besides, I might die tonight, in which case the village, after seeing me as a Village Landlord (extra vote's on Cloud for tonight) should be more than happy to guide you to the inspection stand or to the noose.

[Ecthelion III he/him]

@Mckeedee123

Well, I guess no turnover tonight. See you in the morning (unless I die. Then, I guess, don't see you in the morning).

Edited July 13, 2016 by Ecthelion III

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

My apologies. The cycle is over! Write-up coming soon.

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

Probably no write-up!
______________________________

Elbereth was attacked, but the kill action was blocked!

Cloudjumper was elected to the Senate!
Cloudjumper (8): Elbereth, The Young Bard, Ecthelion III, Eolhandras, Elenion, Amanuensis, Kipper

Nobody was Recalled!
Bard (1): Eolhandras
Elenion(1): Kipper

Player List:

 

1. Elbereth- Saoli

2. Mailliw- Reomaim

3. Cloudjumper- Kelron

4. The Young Bard- The Mysterious Figure

5. Ecthelion III- Aeleus

6. Orlok- Locke

7. Elodin- oaR  Village Merchant

8. Straw- Straw

9. Conquestor- Lorienthe Mysteries Cultist Landlord

10. Eramit- Kolokolo Kolo

11. Metacognition- Meta

12. emilylime- Lime

13. Eolhandras- Eolhandras

14. Elenion- Ashkelon

15. Sart- Sart

16. Jaimelecee- Jaena Village Merchant

17. Amanuensis- Opalin

18. Seonid- Sheon Idris

19. Kipper- Kipper

Edited November 29, 2016 by Alvron

[Elenion he/him]

Great block Cloud! At least I think it was Cloud...

Now it's business time. Eramit, your time has come to die.

The Senate Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fdCOQLGqPIrCEC5nbBxGz34hdYPfDs1Gj4TRrg4uwGM/edit?usp=sharing

[Elbereth she/her]

Few things rather quickly before I go to bed:

1. I will be gone until turnover tomorrow, and for most of the next turn as well. I may make it on at some point during the day, but I can't guarantee that. Sorry.  (On the plus side, I'm observing! On an actual real telescope!  So that's exciting.)

2. [color=red]Eramit[/color]. 

3. I would encourage everyone to post their vote for who to scan. We need discussion, and today's lynch isn't going to help that. So alternative means are necessary. 

Night, everyone. I'll be on once in the morning. Maybe. 

EDIT: Thank you whoever saved me. Likely Cloud.  

Edited July 13, 2016 by Elbereth

[Elenion he/him]

I  put my scan on Maill  but am open to suggestions.  I'll be watching the thread  on and off, at least twice before turnover.

[Young Bard he/him]

All right. In the Senate Doc, I seem to have accrued a fair amount of suspicion. I'll respond to that now.

So, the reasons that are against me are:

1. I defended Eramit. I have to admit, I don't actually remember doing this. The only thing I can think of was my questioning of El, which wasn't actually a defence of Eramit, so much. It was more suspicion of Elbereth, as it went directly against the precedent (and part of the little theory that I mentioned later, now mostly disproved with the attempted kill). I had Eramit down in my head as someone to watch myself. I wasn't calling it either way just yet because they were a new player, which meant it was harder to tell what they would do, and also so they could get more of an idea on the game. Aman also said that I'd 'put a lot of thought' into defending Eramit against El. Again, I put a lot of thought into whether El could be an Eliminator, because of a gut read I was trying to make sense of. Eramit was more a by-product of that train of thought. Had I actually been defending him, I would have made a post trying to convince the whole thread, rather than asking El a specific question about precedent.

2. Casting suspicion on Cloud and Elodin, who are both confirmed good now. I was wrong about this. However, I wasn't the only one. In fact, I seem to recall that Elenion, who is the one who made this argument, agreed with me at the time. At the time, I think I could be justified for thinking what I did.

Now that that's done, I'd like to point out that their should have been 2 kills yesterday (I went and re-read the rules after El reminded me the Jeskeri had a kill role). The Derethi had one, and the Jeskeri had one. So, either Mek made a mistake, one kill failed but didn't show up in the write up (Mek, are there any roles that could allow this?), or one of the 2 factions decided to not use their kill (either they forgot to get the action in on time or else they all had actions or were inactive)

Oh, and by the way: Eramit.

[cloudjumper he/him]

I did not protect El. I assume the Kesegan monk did, though. Whoever they are, great job!

Eramit

Edit: It would be useful if the Monk told us who did it, but I guess that would reveal another target for the Jeskiri and Derethi.

Edited July 13, 2016 by cloudjumper
Edit

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

2 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

Now that that's done, I'd like to point out that their should have been 2 kills yesterday (I went and re-read the rules after El reminded me the Jeskeri had a kill role). The Derethi had one, and the Jeskeri had one. So, either Mek made a mistake, one kill failed but didn't show up in the write up (Mek, are there any roles that could allow this?), or one of the 2 factions decided to not use their kill (either they forgot to get the action in on time or else they all had actions or were inactive)

If there had been another attempted kill action, you would have been informed of it.

[Straw he/him]

To prove myself as the acolyte I will say the last word from the doc: "out." 

@cloudjumper Please confirm me.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Straw

[cloudjumper he/him]

On 7/13/2016 at 7:33 AM, Straw said:

To prove myself as the acolyte I will say the last word from the doc: "out." 

@cloudjumper Please confirm me.

He's the acolyte.

[Ecthelion III he/him]

Eramit, of course.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Ecthelion III

[Elenion he/him]

4 hours ago, The Young Bard said:

All right. In the Senate Doc, I seem to have accrued a fair amount of suspicion. I'll respond to that now.

So, the reasons that are against me are:

1. I defended Eramit. I have to admit, I don't actually remember doing this. The only thing I can think of was my questioning of El, which wasn't actually a defence of Eramit, so much. It was more suspicion of Elbereth, as it went directly against the precedent (and part of the little theory that I mentioned later, now mostly disproved with the attempted kill). I had Eramit down in my head as someone to watch myself. I wasn't calling it either way just yet because they were a new player, which meant it was harder to tell what they would do, and also so they could get more of an idea on the game. Aman also said that I'd 'put a lot of thought' into defending Eramit against El. Again, I put a lot of thought into whether El could be an Eliminator, because of a gut read I was trying to make sense of. Eramit was more a by-product of that train of thought. Had I actually been defending him, I would have made a post trying to convince the whole thread, rather than asking El a specific question about precedent.

2. Casting suspicion on Cloud and Elodin, who are both confirmed good now. I was wrong about this. However, I wasn't the only one. In fact, I seem to recall that Elenion, who is the one who made this argument, agreed with me at the time. At the time, I think I could be justified for thinking what I did.

Now that that's done, I'd like to point out that their should have been 2 kills yesterday (I went and re-read the rules after El reminded me the Jeskeri had a kill role). The Derethi had one, and the Jeskeri had one. So, either Mek made a mistake, one kill failed but didn't show up in the write up (Mek, are there any roles that could allow this?), or one of the 2 factions decided to not use their kill (either they forgot to get the action in on time or else they all had actions or were inactive)

Oh, and by the way: Eramit.

1. I don't remember a full defense of him either, but I don't remember you voting for him either.

2. You have me there; I was as misguided as you. I thought Cloud was bad because of that whole reactions mess at the beginning, but ceased trying to kill him after El proved him innocent. I was suspicious of Elodin as well, but most people were at that time. If you look at my first vote on Elodin, it actually was a poke-vote, but I kept it on him after he didn't respond.

3. Maybe both the Derethi and Jeskeri attacked El, and the monk blocked both of their kills. If so, that would prove him innocent...

[Elbereth she/her]

Hm. It's certainly possible that both attacked me. I would be surprised, but it's possible. Doesn't prove me innocent, though, unless Kesegan Monk is a village-only role. Which I don't think it is, but I could be wrong and don't have time to check. (Also, I'm female. ) 

[eramit he/him]

Dont you think its a little bit wierd that Bard referred to the jeskeri as another village faction and not as a second evil faction?

I think that as a villager you should refer to anyone who isnt a villager as a potential threat that cannot be ignored and not advise to others to ignore them.

[Elenion he/him]

3 hours ago, Elbereth said:

Hm. It's certainly possible that both attacked me. I would be surprised, but it's possible. Doesn't prove me innocent, though, unless Kesegan Monk is a village-only role. Which I don't think it is, but I could be wrong and don't have time to check. (Also, I'm female. ) 

Well, it does figure seeing that your using the Elvish name for Varda, lady of the stars, as your username. I apologize.

2 hours ago, eramit said:

Dont you think its a little bit wierd that Bard referred to the jeskeri as another village faction and not as a second evil faction?

I think that as a villager you should refer to anyone who isnt a villager as a potential threat that cannot be ignored and not advise to others to ignore them

You have a decent point, but that really smells like a plot to delay your death another turn and therefore give your team another reading on who is what. Funny enough, your accusations of Bard might be attempts to convince us that he's not Derethi, which is just what I'd do if I was an elim about to be killed.

[Ecthelion III he/him]

That just makes me more suspicious of you, Bard, that eramit decided to "bus" you when it was obvious he would get lynched.

I agree with scanning Mailliw73.

[Guest]

Quote

I find it interesting that you point out my bandwagoning (I won't hide it; I love a good bandwagon, as long as it's for the right reasons), but yet you only throw one of five votes needed to remove me, necessitating a bandwagon if you hope to succeed. And if you think that me threatening people with death is abnormal for me, you need to read some of my threats D1. However, one of those threats did end up leading us to Eramit... And what do you mean by "bus?" As in, like, throwing someone under the bus? Or like I'm hopping on a bus full of elims? Or like I'm running people over with a bus?

@Elenion, I wasn't clear. My issue was with the way that you participated in a bandwagon, really starting it yourself, and then turned around and criticized the next person who joined, for the same reasons as yourself. Very hypocritical. I don't think threatening people with death is abnormal for you, but it is foolish, since you don't have a lot of power in that respect.

Quote

[19. Kipper- Kipper: Attacks me with hypocritical bandwagon attack. Not necessarily the best start, but no definite suspicions yet.

It's comforting that you don't move straight to an omgus. Anyway, I've discussed above why I criticized you over the bandwagoning issue.

[Straw he/him]

Will I be elected? Because I'm confirmed good. By the way, Eramit.

[Elenion he/him]

1 hour ago, Straw said:

Will I be elected? Because I'm confirmed good. By the way, Eramit.

Well, next spot won't be open until 2 game-nights from now, because there's only a vote-out tonight and we won't be able to fill the hole that the Derethi make in the senate (I assume they will continue to target senators) until the night after that.

It looks like Mailliw is the unanimous choice to put the scan on, so I'll keep my senate scan vote on him.

I find it strange that @eramit suddenly targeted Bard. Either he's trying to throw us off-track or is a bit bitter and is busing Bard for revenge.

 

Edited July 13, 2016 by Elenion

[Elenion he/him]

2 hours ago, Kipper said:

@Elenion, I wasn't clear. My issue was with the way that you participated in a bandwagon, really starting it yourself, and then turned around and criticized the next person who joined, for the same reasons as yourself. Very hypocritical. I don't think threatening people with death is abnormal for you, but it is foolish, since you don't have a lot of power in that respect.

Well it seems like someone else bandwagoned, then I bandwagoned, then you threw a vote that needed an bandwagon but didn't get one. I apologize for my rudeness (looking back I see that I was very rude indeed). I'm actually pretty slow to truly suspect, but anyone who I even slightly suspect is liable to receive death threats, especially when I was the only active senator and so commanded 4 votes. I even changed my title to "Overaggressive SE Player" because of my tendency to threaten.

I'm not really suspicious of you since you were acting in the interest of the common villagers and you don't appear to be trying to influence others' votes.

 

**sorry for the double-post, I couldn't add the quote while editing for some reason**