Long Game 24: The Godless City

[STINK he/him]

Could someone do a vote tally please?

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

Apologies, everyone. I have been far less active than I should have been, and indeed have followed less than I normally do whilst lurking. I'm in the last few days before A-level results, and dealing with the 'Onboarding' process for my gap year job. 

I've been self protecting as a legionnaire - which I understand is difficult to prove. 

I need to read through everything again before making a decision on Aman. I will note, though, that when I last PMd him, and asked him to justify his suspicion of me, he dropped it incredibly quickly - to the point where I got a sense that he was trying to manipulate me - which makes me certainly a little suspicious of him.

[STINK he/him]

If more people vote for him we can bandwagon!

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Vote tally(edit: updated):

Aman(3): Lopen, Conq, Stink
Conq(1): Aman
Eol(1): Sart
Bard(1): Len

Wow. That's kind of pathetic.  I'd go through the game and try to point out all of my reasoning for suspecting Aman, but I don't really have the time right now.

Edited August 14, 2016 by TheMightyLopen
Added stink's vote

[STINK he/him]

Looks like we're bandwagoning Aman . Fun times!

[Amanuensis he/him]

Conquestor. Alvron. I got confirmation that he's the Jeskeri Practitioner from the role scanner.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

2 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Conquestor. Alvron. I got confirmation that he's the Jeskeri Practitioner from the role scanner.

Um...what? The role scanner told me he came up as an unknown role. 

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

I suspect that Aman may have been trying to arrange one last village lynch before we lynched him. Given the role-scanner appears to be anonymous, I imagine he was relying on the scanner valuing his continued anonymity above revealing the lie.

Alternatively, I could be completely wrong, but this seems at least plausible.

[STINK he/him]

So operation bandwagon is a go?

[Arrae]

Vote posts of all the people whose votes were on Kipper at turnover:

I'm not going to bother with analyzing Kipper's, STINK's, and Burnt's votes, since they all had obvious reasons to want SD dead instead of Kipper.

Note: Len's last minute switch was not counted by Joe. SD would still be dead if Joe had counted Len's switch.

Aman's post jumped out at me the most. Aman had two reasons to vote on SD: Kipper claimed Hrovell Alchemist, and Aman made a deal with STINK to kill SD. The Hrovell Alchemist thing is interesting: most people don't want to die or cause another mass die-off of four people. Kipper, of course, couldn't claim it, because why would a Jester-like role tell people they're a Jester? However, a fellow Jeskeri who wanted to save the Jeskeri-pretending-to-be-Jester could bring up the idea. The fellow Jeskeri would pretend to be a concerned villager who wanted to prevent a mass die-off.

In hindsight, the HA claim has a few holes. Aman never mentioned Kipper's win con, and he said that the HA kills would be triggered with Kipper's death, not lynching. If Joe made a role like the HA, I'd assume their win con would be to get lynched, not just to die. Dying is way too easy in SE. I'd also assume that Joe wouldn't give the HA the joy of seeing lots of people die unless the HA reached their win con, which is to get lynched.

Of course, we don't know who made up the HA thing. It could be Kipper, it could be Aman, it could be one of Kipper's teammates. This could have happened both if Aman was village or if Aman was Jeskeri. It's not immediately alignment indicative, but think it's worth thinking about further.

Also, @Amanuensis, @TheMightyLopen, you know that Bard has been revealed as the role scanner, right? I think he can type for himself.

[Amanuensis he/him]

He told me the same thing too, at first. Since he could win with any team, he decided to contact Alv to find out how close they were to winning. Alv said they only began with three players (Kipper the Practitioner and 2 Acolytes), but would not say who his last teammate was. He also claimed the Acolytes have the power to redirect actions (that's how they got Jaime and Wilson to target me when the Practitioner attacked me). He also told Bard that they attempted to redirect both yours and Burnt's kill at some point in the game, and that Joe pointed out that any failed redirects are due to their target being Neutral or Neutral-Evil. Considering how hard you've been trying to kill me, Lopen, I highly suspect that you're Neutral-Evil right now. I'd probably try to get you lynched too, considering you have a kill and want to use it on me, but I have no ground to stand on regarding that until Alv is proven to be the Practitioner.

I can't say for sure if any of what Alv said to him was true, but I don't understand why Bard would lie about it. @The Young Bard, can you please confirm everything I've said here is exactly what you told me?

I understand people's hesitance, but my intent is not ill, I promise you. Orlok, I didn't think about this at first, but if I was Jeskeri, why would I tell you about the second Legionnaire and insist you self protect yourself every night from then on? If I knew about the Practitioner ahead of time, I would have surely tried to convince you to arrest me on N3 as well, so that I could get all of the village protection killed.

If you don't want to trust me, trust Bard, at least. I'm not lying, but if I was, everyone would find out as soon as this turn is over. Rae would refuse to protect me and you'd be free to kill me, Lopen.

I can't argue my innocence in the situation with Kipper. I was duped. I considered the possibility of the lie (which is why I made the plan to scan him in the first place), but was not willing to take that risk considering all of our losses up to that point. In a situation like that, I really wanted to be safe rather than sorry.

Even if I didn't get involved, it wouldn't have mattered much, anyway, as SD was already in the lead. I also thought it'd be nice to help Stink win, too, which is frustrating since he's now voted on me.

Please people, be smart. Before I was attacked by the Jeskeri Practitioner, everyone trusted I was village. I've been honestly working in our best interest this entire time, and the only reason I'm being voted on at this point is because Lopen keeps insisting I'm evil when I'm not. Please do not do the Jeskeri's work for them. They will probably attack me tonight anyway, to prevent me from getting any more scans in. I want to scan Aonar like I originally intended, as he was the first player to mention them maybe having a redirection ability, which now that I've heard it come from Alv as well, I'm thinking was not a coincidence.

 

EDIT: Also, Rae, there's a few "holes" because I didn't have all of the information. I only said what Kip told me, because it made no sense for me to keep it a secret.

EDIT2: And Orlok. Alv claimed Neutral that scans as an Eliminator. He openly admitted to not being a Villager to multiple people.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Amanuensis

[STINK he/him]

Don't forget guys, if Aman really is a Dula like he says then everyone he said was village is like 100 percent village.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Not true. Dula only says if someone is an Eliminator or Not. People I scan as Not Eliminator can still be Neutral or Neutral Evil. And the only player I've scanned so far who isn't dead is Lopen, so that proves nothing anyway.

[STINK he/him]

Oh well, I haven't seen Lopen do anything evilish. 

[Alvron he/him]

14 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

He told me the same thing too, at first. Since he could win with any team, he decided to contact Alv to find out how close they were to winning. Alv said they only began with three players (Kipper the Practitioner and 2 Acolytes), but would not say who his last teammate was. He also claimed the Acolytes have the power to redirect actions (that's how they got Jaime and Wilson to target me when the Practitioner attacked me). He also told Bard that they attempted to redirect both yours and Burnt's kill at some point in the game, and that Joe pointed out that any failed redirects are due to their target being Neutral or Neutral-Evil. Considering how hard you've been trying to kill me, Lopen, I highly suspect that you're Neutral-Evil right now. I'd probably try to get you lynched too, considering you have a kill and want to use it on me, but I have no ground to stand on regarding that until Alv is proven to be the Practitioner.

I can't say for sure if any of what Alv said to him was true, but I don't understand why Bard would lie about it. @The Young Bard, can you please confirm everything I've said here is exactly what you told me?

I can't even begin to tell you how wrong you are.  But then you already know you're wrong given that you are a Cultist.  I mean this is me we are talking about.  Do you really think I would ever completely trust someone with such information when I can't be 100% certain that they are on the same side as me??

I say we lynch Aman and if he's not a Cultist then Lopen/Stink can kill me during the night.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Probably because he's not an eliminator, like I've already confirmed, and once again I'm going to argue vehemently that I haven't done a single thing "evilish" either. I was locked up for half the game and I've been trying to do nothing but find the eliminators the rest of the time. Lynching me right now is the last thing the village needs.

But you know what? Storm it. I'm not going to keep arguing my innocence anymore. You'll all see I'm being honest when Joe puts my alignment in the next write-up, and can shake your heads at yourselves for not listening to me. Just please, Lopen, if you're actually working for the village, attack Alvron tonight. If he didn't lie to Bard then there will be a single Acolyte-turned-Practitioner left, and I reckon it's Aonar. If it's not him, ya'll should still have a few more turns before they can finish it. I just hope that there's nothing else we need to worry about, like more Jeskeri than Alv said, or another eliminator to clean up.

[STINK he/him]

You've been a good elim Aman, tbh.

[Amanuensis he/him]

10 minutes ago, Alvron said:

 

I can't even begin to tell you how wrong you are.  But then you already know you're wrong given that you are a Cultist.  I mean this is me we are talking about.  Do you really think I would ever completely trust someone with such information when I can't be 100% certain that they are on the same side as me??

I say we lynch Aman and if he's not a Cultist then Lopen/Stink can kill me during the night.

I'm pretty sure I said I don't trust the information you gave Bard was completely honest. That being said, I trust that Bard scanned you as the Jeskeri Practitioner absolutely, so it doesn't really matter what you would or wouldn't do.

9 minutes ago, STINK said:

You've been a good elim Aman, tbh.

I'm not a storming elim. But you already know that from our PMs. And this is exactly why I said in the very beginning of the game that we shouldn't trust you; you're allegiance would be fickle and likely cost the village the game. I'm really disappointed in you. Especially after I decided to dump everything I knew to you and trust you completely after Elb, Wilson and Mage died.

[STINK he/him]

Wait so Bard is the role scanner?

[Arrae]

39 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

He told me the same thing too, at first. Since he could win with any team, he decided to contact Alv to find out how close they were to winning. Alv said they only began with three players (Kipper the Practitioner and 2 Acolytes), but would not say who his last teammate was. He also claimed the Acolytes have the power to redirect actions (that's how they got Jaime and Wilson to target me when the Practitioner attacked me). He also told Bard that they attempted to redirect both yours and Burnt's kill at some point in the game, and that Joe pointed out that any failed redirects are due to their target being Neutral or Neutral-Evil. Considering how hard you've been trying to kill me, Lopen, I highly suspect that you're Neutral-Evil right now. I'd probably try to get you lynched too, considering you have a kill and want to use it on me, but I have no ground to stand on regarding that until Alv is proven to be the Practitioner.

Oh the wondrous and supreme Young Bard, please accept me as your new disciple. I know that I am a mere mortal and not fit to even walk on the same ground as you, but I will try my best to be a fitting subject for you. Anybody who can make Alvron speak so much about confidential subjects is worthy of joining the Divine Quadrinity. If you accept me, I will spread your name through the land and spread your words to all whose ears are open to the truth.

In other words, I'm pretty sure you're lying, Aman. Also pretty sure that putting a redirect role on the same team with a werewolf role is overpowered. Joe wouldn't allow the Jeskeri such easy chain kills. He'd make you actually work for your kills.

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I understand people's hesitance, but my intent is not ill, I promise you. Orlok, I didn't think about this at first, but if I was Jeskeri, why would I tell you about the second Legionnaire and insist you self protect yourself every night from then on? If I knew about the Practitioner ahead of time, I would have surely tried to convince you to arrest me on N3 as well, so that I could get all of the village protection killed.

Maybe you would tell Orlok about the second Legionnaire so you might be able to make this exact argument over here. I don't know -- I'm not you. But maybe you weren't planning to JP attack yourself at the time, and the N3 die-off was happily unexpected.

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If you don't want to trust me, trust Bard, at least. I'm not lying, but if I was, everyone would find out as soon as this turn is over. Rae would refuse to protect me and you'd be free to kill me, Lopen.

I don't trust you at all. I don't trust Bard very much either. I especially don't trust you speaking what you claim is Bard's words.

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I can't argue my innocence in the situation with Kipper. I was duped. I considered the possibility of the lie (which is why I made the plan to scan him in the first place), but was not willing to take that risk considering all of our losses up to that point. In a situation like that, I really wanted to be safe rather than sorry.

Even if I didn't get involved, it wouldn't have mattered much, anyway, as SD was already in the lead. I also thought it'd be nice to help Stink win, too, which is frustrating since he's now voted on me

The "scan" would also keep him alive another Night, and encourage the village to not lynch your teammate. Also, you can't say for sure that your involvement in SD's lynch didn't matter much. How many people voted on SD instead of Kipper because they believed your HA claim on Kipper's behalf? How many people would have voted on SD without your HA claim? We don't know, and that particular argument is a logical fallacy.

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Please people, be smart. Before I was attacked by the Jeskeri Practitioner, everyone trusted I was village. I've been honestly working in our best interest this entire time, and the only reason I'm being voted on at this point is because Lopen keeps insisting I'm evil when I'm not. Please do not do the Jeskeri's work for them. They will probably attack me tonight anyway, to prevent me from getting any more scans in. I want to scan Aonar like I originally intended, as he was the first player to mention them maybe having a redirection ability, which now that I've heard it come from Alv as well, I'm thinking was not a coincidence.

I can't speak for others, but I'll be smart and lynch you. Happy?

Reads can change. Suspicions can change. People aren't locked into the reads they get on D1, which is a good thing, because as time goes on new evidence arises. Some people may have trusted you up till D4, but a lot of things have happened since then. Good players take new evidence into account. You're advocating bad habits.

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Probably because he's not an eliminator, like I've already confirmed, and once again I'm going to argue vehemently that I haven't done a single thing "evilish" either. I was locked up for half the game and I've been trying to do nothing but find the eliminators the rest of the time. Lynching me right now is the last thing the village needs.

But you know what? Storm it. I'm not going to keep arguing my innocence anymore. You'll all see I'm being honest when Joe puts my alignment in the next write-up, and can shake your heads at yourselves for not listening to me. Just please, Lopen, if you're actually working for the village, attack Alvron tonight. If he didn't lie to Bard then there will be a single Acolyte-turned-Practitioner left, and I reckon it's Aonar. If it's not him, ya'll should still have a few more turns before they can finish it. I just hope that there's nothing else we need to worry about, like more Jeskeri than Alv said, or another eliminator to clean up

Ooh, appeal to emotion, one that might convince people not to vote for you. You're good, Aman. My goal is that one day, I can manipulate people the way you do.  

 

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Vote tally:

Aman(5): Lopen, Conq, Stink, Alvron, Rae
Alvron(1): Aman
Eol(1): Sart
Bard(1): Len

I would respond to all these posts, but I've gotta go right now. Maybe I will in a few hours, if I have the time then. I really doubt Aman is telling the truth though.

[Elenion he/him]

2 hours ago, STINK said:

So operation bandwagon is a go?

Len the bandwagoner reporting! Bard Aman

@Amanuensis I almost feel bad for doing this, seeing as between SD and I we actually saved Aman last time he was up for lynch. That being said, Aman and @TheMightyLopen disagree on what Bard scanned. Here's our options for Aman and Lopen:

• Both evil: WRONG because Lopen's been legitly trying to kill Aman the past couple turns
• Aman evil, Lopen village: PLAUSIBLE
• Aman village, Lopen evil: WRONG because Village!Aman wouldn't lie about scanning Lopen
• Both village: PLAUSIBLE

In both plausible scenarios Lopen is village. Bard would then have no reason to lie to Lopen, so that means Aman is lying.

[Amanuensis he/him]

I’m sorry to do this without your consent, Sart, but after Stink decided to betray me, I see no way that we can win this. He won’t budge, and since we now know that Rae is Neutral-Evil with Alv and Lopen, she's automatically going to take their side. I would not be surprised if they figured out you’re on my team based on what I've already posted today, and since Lopen has a kill I imagine that means he’d use it on you tonight. As people should know by now, whenever it becomes a sure thing that I can't win, I am willing to accept defeat and do whatever it takes to make sure the majority of players can win instead.

So, for context. Last night, Sart was “Converted” by the Patriarch and learned that the it is an Eliminator role capable of turning Citizens into Neutral-Evils, while Converted Eliminators retain their original win con. All Converted players are put in a PM together, while the Patriarch can send anonymous messages to them via the GM, and in return receives a transcript of what’s said that day turn at the start of the night. So far, Lopen and Rae have been converted. I am not sure if they need to be killed in order for the game to end, but if ya'll kill Alv and Sart after me and the game still hasn't ended, my best guess would be that that's why. We know for a fact that it's Alv because Alv was scanned by Bard as Unknown, meaning that he's a role that has not been revealed already, and everyone else has either been scanned by Bard or hard confirmed.

When I found this out, I decided to try lying about Bard actually finding out Alv was the Practitioner. I left him a PM asking him to please go along with it, since I had, like Stink, admitted I was evil to him and promised to help him win so long as he helped me in return. Since he has yet to betray me (unlike Stink) I ask that you guys leave him alone. He doesn't deserve to get dragged down along with me.

Here's a chart from my doc containing everything I know about the remaining players.

Name	Role	Alignment
Amanuensis	Jeskeri Practitioner	Evil
Alvron	Patriarch	Evil
Aonar Faileas	Retired Pirate	Good
Arraenae	Beggar-turned-Bodyguard	Neutral-Evil
Conquestor	Retired Pirate	Good
Elenion	Duke	Good
Eolhondras	Beggar-turned-Bodyguard	Good
OrlokTsubodai	Legionnaire	Good
Sart	Jeskeri Acolyte	Evil
Stink	The Mad Prince	Neutral
TheMightyLopen	ChayShan Practitioner	Neutral-Evil
The Young Bard	Jindo	Neutral

This will be my last post this game, as there's really nothing else for me to comment on. For all of the Citizens I betrayed and killed to get this far, I know you're all cheering for my defeat right now from the dead doc. Take solace in knowing that your deaths were not for naught.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Elenion he/him]

1 minute ago, Amanuensis said:

I’m sorry to do this, Sart, but after Stink decided to betray me, I see no way that we can win this. He won’t budge, and since we now know that Rae is Neutral-Evil with Alv and Lopen, she's automatically going to take their side. I would not be surprised if they figured out you’re on my team based on what I've already posted today, and since Lopen has a kill I imagine that means he’d use it on you tonight. As people should know by now, whenever it becomes a sure thing that I can't win, I am willing to accept defeat and do whatever it takes to make sure the majority of players can win instead.

So, for context. Last night, Sart was “Converted” by the Patriarch and learned that the it is an Eliminator role capable of turning Citizens into Neutral-Evils, while Converted Eliminators retain their original win con. All Converted players are put in a PM together, while the Patriarch can send anonymous messages to them via the GM, and in return receives a transcript of what’s said that day turn at the start of the night. So far, Lopen and Rae have been converted. I am not sure if they need to be killed in order for the game to end, but if ya'll kill Alv and Sart after me and the game still hasn't ended, my best guess would be that that's why. We know for a fact that it's Alv because Alv was scanned by Bard as Unknown, meaning that he's a role that has not been revealed already, and everyone else has either been scanned by Bard or hard confirmed.

When I found this out, I decided to try lying about Bard actually finding out Alv was the Practitioner. I left him a PM asking him to please go along with it, since I had, like Stink, admitted I was evil to him and promised to help him win so long as he helped me in return. Since he has yet to betray me (unlike Stink) I ask that you guys leave him alone. He doesn't deserve to get dragged down along with me.

Here's a chart from my doc containing everything I know about the remaining players.

Name	Role	Alignment
Amanuensis	Jeskeri Practitioner	Evil
Alvron	Patriarch	Evil
Aonar Faileas	Retired Pirate	Good
Arraenae	Beggar-turned-Bodyguard	Neutral-Evil
Conquestor	Retired Pirate	Good
Elenion	Duke	Good
Eolhondras	Beggar-turned-Bodyguard	Evil
OrlokTsubodai	Legionnaire	Good
Sart	Jeskeri Acolyte	Evil
Stink	The Mad Prince	Neutral
TheMightyLopen	ChayShan Practitioner	Neutral-Evil
The Young Bard	Jindo	Neutral

This will be my last post this game, as there's really nothing else for me to comment on. For all of the Citizens I betrayed and killed to get this far, I know you're all cheering for my defeat right now from the dead doc. Take solace in knowing that your deaths were not for naught.

Well then: it appears that the village is pretty-much toast.

But Aman, why is Eol green but marked evil?

[Amanuensis he/him]

You guys could tie the lynch on Alv and I. Sart is still an Acolyte and thus still has his extra life, but once he becomes the Practitioner after my death, he will lose it. Since Lopen needs to kill him to win anyway, I imagine he'll go after him tonight. If all three of those things happen, the Citizens should win.

Ah, that's an error. Sorry. It should say good.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Amanuensis