No Shardplate for Kaladin

[Oversleep]

Could please somebody explain why wouldn't Kaladin want his own Shardplate? I mean, very resistant power armor which does not inhibit movement in any way and, if what we've seen in visions is what we think it is, it can be summoned at will. What are the cons?

Meanwhile the pros are numerous: protection against mundane damage = less Stormlight wasted on healing. Protection against supernatural damage, like Shardweapons. Interference with other Investitures - Szeth couldn't Lash people in Shardplate, it's almost impossible to be Pushed/Pulled etc. Protection against Voidbringers - Adolin would be toast when that stormform threw lightning at him - also it protects the eyes, as the helmet adapted to black out the flashes.

Possibly it also creates a closed circuit of Stormlight, which means none of it is wasted by evaporation.

[+hwiles]

Kaladin has to have shardplate. If a 10,000 lb thunderclast made of granite hits him and he isn't wearing 100 stone (2,000 lbs) of armor, even if he parries, he'll get launched so far from the battle that he'll be irrelevant. Looks like he's blasting off again!!!....

[bdoble97]

2 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Could please somebody explain why wouldn't Kaladin want his own Shardplate? I mean, very resistant power armor which does not inhibit movement in any way and, if what we've seen in visions is what we think it is, it can be summoned at will. What are the cons?

Meanwhile the pros are numerous: protection against mundane damage = less Stormlight wasted on healing. Protection against supernatural damage, like Shardweapons. Interference with other Investitures - Szeth couldn't Lash people in Shardplate, it's almost impossible to be Pushed/Pulled etc. Protection against Voidbringers - Adolin would be toast when that stormform threw lightning at him - also it protects the eyes, as the helmet adapted to black out the flashes.

Possibly it also creates a closed circuit of Stormlight, which means none of it is wasted by evaporation.

 

1 hour ago, hwiles said:

Kaladin has to have shardplate. If a 10,000 lb thunderclast made of granite hits him and he isn't wearing 100 stone (2,000 lbs) of armor, even if he parries, he'll get launched so far from the battle that he'll be irrelevant. Looks like he's blasting off again!!!....

Both excellent points but I guess it is fall back on I don't feel like the character himself likes the idea of wearing Shardplate. I know that's not a great argument but that's just my feelings about this matter.

[Oversleep]

9 minutes ago, bdoble97 said:

Both excellent points but I guess it is fall back on I don't feel like the character himself likes the idea of wearing Shardplate. I know that's not a great argument but that's just my feelings about this matter.

... where are you getting that from? When Kaladin shows dislike for Shards it's always about the Blade, first cause it killed his men then is the result of the Nahel bond related screaming. And even then has no problems using Shallan's Blade. No feelings about that.

What's more, he has no problems whatsover with wearing it when dueling Shardbearers.

[+hwiles]

2 minutes ago, bdoble97 said:

 

Both excellent points but I guess it is fall back on I don't feel like the character himself likes the idea of wearing Shardplate. I know that's not a great argument but that's just my feelings about this matter.

I get where you're coming from, but remember, Kaladins viewpoint book and flash backs are done. Once his personal struggles with depression and the demons of his past are a little more settled, he'll be ripe for a back seat position until he needs to murder some stone monsters. Even if he hates it, he'll wear the armor to protect his squires. All other advantages aside, the inertia and momentum granted by shardplate are nothing short of incredible.

Radiants in shardplate won't be fun to read about unless they are pitted against a suitable conflicting force. I speculate that Kaladin will either get his plate right when the conflict is escalating rapidly before the series conclusion, or else he'll get it, then adopt a more off-screen role until just before the series conclusion.

[bdoble97]

57 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

... where are you getting that from? When Kaladin shows dislike for Shards it's always about the Blade, first cause it killed his men then is the result of the Nahel bond related screaming. And even then has no problems using Shallan's Blade. No feelings about that.

What's more, he has no problems whatsover with wearing it when dueling Shardbearers.

Kalidian never puts on a full set of sharp pain when doing shot bears and refuses to use one of the Kings blades. He only uses a shard helm on his fist whem helping Adolin on that 4 against 1 duel. I think he only used Shallan blade beacuse he thought he was going to die down in the chasm and her blade is pattern so its not wrong and there is no screaming. Hey just finished part in the book when he uses Syl to creat the shardspear she also turns into a shard hammer,swaord,sheild.  I am thinking that Kalidian and Syl are lurimg to ways to fight with the bond. But who knows.

[Spoolofwhool]

18 minutes ago, bdoble97 said:

Kalidian never puts on a full set of sharp pain when doing shot bears and refuses to use one of the Kings blades. He only uses a shard helm on his fist whem helping Adolin on that 4 against 1 duel. I think he only used Shallan blade beacuse he thought he was going to die down in the chasm and her blade is pattern so its not wrong and there is no screaming. Hey just finished part in the book when he uses Syl to creat the shardspear she also turns into a shard hammer,swaord,sheild.  I am thinking that Kalidian and Syl are lurimg to ways to fight with the bond. But who knows.

Please. Grammar, and most importantly, spelling. I can't tell what the second half of your first sentence means and I'm only partially convinced the first half is suppose to be "Kaladin never puts on a full set of shard plate"

From what I do understand of your post, I don't see anything which supports your previous statement of Kaladin not liking the idea of wearing shardplate. Really, the only issue he has with it is the association with shardblades and his dislike of shardblades. As such, now that he he's more willing to use shardblades, particularly since he has one which doesn't scream, there's nothing that seems to indicate that he would be adverse to using plate.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[bdoble97]

44 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Please. Grammar, and most importantly, spelling. I can't tell what the second half of your first sentence means and I'm only partially convinced the first half is suppose to be "Kaladin never puts on a full set of shard plate"

From what I do understand of your post, I don't see anything which supports your previous statement of Kaladin not liking the idea of wearing shardplate. Really, the only issue he has with it is the association with shardblades and his dislike of shardblades. As such, now that he he's more willing to use shardblades, particularly since he has one which doesn't scream, there's nothing that seems to indicate that he would be adverse to using plate.

Sorry sorry using voice to text I'm at work. Haha I guess it's just a gut felling that he will not use shardplate. 

[Treamayne]

Wasn't Syl already with him when he defeated Shallan's brother (even if he didn't know it). I think his early aversion to Shards (plate and blade) were because of:

1) The burgeoning Nahel bond includes an aversion to dead shards.

2) He knew taking the blade and plate would make him a light eyes, something he disliked when he turned down the shards in Amaram's army, and couldn't bear the thought of after what Amaram did to him and his squad.

Neither of these precludes character development as he and Syl explore their bond and he says more Windrunner Oaths.

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by Treamayne
typos

[Argel he/him]

From a purely writing standpoint, we've seen Kaladin do amazing things without it in two books now. Unless it's windrunner specific and sleek, I think it will just feel out of place for his character now. 

As an avid game player, I am also used to the heavy armor and the fleet-of-foot types of fighters, and basically we've seen Kaladin as the latter for two books now, and that will continue into SA3 at least for a short while. So, if he does get armor, I expect it to fall into line that type of fighter.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Argel
typos

[bdoble97]

3 hours ago, Argel said:

From a purely writing standpoint, we've seen Kaladin do amazing things without it in two books now. Unless it's windrunner specific and leak, I think it will just feel out of place for his character now. 

As an avid game player, I am also used to the heavy armor and the fleet-of-foot types of fighters, and basically we've seen Kaladin as the latter for two books now, and that will continue into SA3 at least for a short while. So, if he does get armor, I expect it to fall into line that type of fighter.

I cannot agree with you anymore.  He does not have that mindset of a tank just run in there and do as much damage to the enemy as possible even if it does damage to yourself. I think shardplate would inhibit his fighting style and skills too bulky he needs to be able to be fluid in his motions.

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, bdoble97 said:

I cannot agree with you anymore.  He does not have that mindset of a tank just run in there and do as much damage to the enemy as possible even if it does damage to yourself. I think shardplate would inhibit his fighting style and skills too bulky he needs to be able to be fluid in his motions.

From what I've read about those in shardplate, it doesn't really prevent fluidity at all. In fact, it is reputed to increase dexterity. There is no reason why wearing shardplate would make Kaladin any less effective of a fighter. 

Relevant quote:

Quote

Adolin jumped back out of the way, Shardplate-enhanced legs giving him a nimbleness that defied the fact that he was wearing over a hundred stoneweights of thick armor.

- Way of Kings, Chapter 58

I can find more if you're not convinced.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[bdoble97]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

From what I've read about those in shardplate, it doesn't really prevent fluidity at all. In fact, it is reputed to increase dexterity. There is no reason why wearing shardplate would make Kaladin any less effective of a fighter. 

Relevant quote:

I can find more if you're not convinced.

Still not convinced that he will  use shardplate. Just finshes my reread of WOR and still dont think he will use shardplate. To me it just seems so non Kaladin to go into battel with shardplate. So I guess I read in a SA book that Kaladin will use shardplate I dont see it happening. 

[Argel he/him]

The concern is how much bulkier the shardplate is. If it juts out 3 inches further than what he is used to fighting in then he will need to adjust some of his fighting stances, maneuvers, etc. 

[bdoble97]

4 minutes ago, Argel said:

The concern is how much bulkier the shardplate is. If it juts out 3 inches further than what he is used to fighting in then he will need to adjust some of his fighting stances, maneuvers, etc. 

Perfect example. Like I have been saying I just don't see Kaladin using shardplat 

[Eki]

31 minutes ago, Argel said:

The concern is how much bulkier the shardplate is. If it juts out 3 inches further than what he is used to fighting in then he will need to adjust some of his fighting stances, maneuvers, etc. 

Considering he just had to adjust to literally fighting in the air, I doubt this would be a big problem. Especially when weighed against the protection it brings.

[Tariniel he/him]

1 hour ago, Eki said:

Considering he just had to adjust to literally fighting in the air, I doubt this would be a big problem. Especially when weighed against the protection it brings.

Is there a mention of Windrunners in general using Shardplate? Seems strange considering they fly through the air and are generally moving quickly due to their Lashes. I think Szeth mentions somewhere it interferes with Lashing as well.

As for Kaladin himself, Shardplate is a large part of the crack in his Spiritweb, much more so than the Blade, in my opinion. I honestly don't see him using Shardplate (at least the type we know of) any time soon. It just is so against his character...

[Oversleep]

7 minutes ago, Tariniel said:

Is there a mention of Windrunners in general using Shardplate?

Check Recreance vision. Every single one of them.

7 minutes ago, Tariniel said:

Seems strange considering they fly through the air and are generally moving quickly due to their Lashes.

Midnight Essence fight vision - Windrunner both fighting and using Basic Lashing in full Shardplate.

8 minutes ago, Tariniel said:

I think Szeth mentions somewhere it interferes with Lashing as well.

If it was Kaladin's own Shardplate it wouldn't interfere.

9 minutes ago, Tariniel said:

As for Kaladin himself, Shardplate is a large part of the crack in his Spiritweb, much more so than the Blade, in my opinion.

... care to explain what you mean? I don't understand.

10 minutes ago, Tariniel said:

I honestly don't see him using Shardplate (at least the type we know of) any time soon. It just is so against his character...

Using Shardblades is so, so much more against his character. And he has zero problems with Syl turning Shardblade.

[Tariniel he/him]

I just read over my previous post @Oversleep, and it absolutely makes no sense. Sorry, been studying for tests all week. I'm really tired... 

[Oversleep]

I know how that is, @Tariniel. Try to get some rest between all the studying if you can

[bdoble97]

59 minutes ago, Tariniel said:

Is there a mention of Windrunners in general using Shardplate? Seems strange considering they fly through the air and are generally moving quickly due to their Lashes. I think Szeth mentions somewhere it interferes with Lashing as well.

As for Kaladin himself, Shardplate is a large part of the crack in his Spiritweb, much more so than the Blade, in my opinion. I honestly don't see him using Shardplate (at least the type we know of) any time soon. It just is so against his character...

This 100% rhe way i fell abouthim and Shardplate 

[marianmi]

Using shardblade was also against his character.

[Spoolofwhool]

6 hours ago, Argel said:

The concern is how much bulkier the shardplate is. If it juts out 3 inches further than what he is used to fighting in then he will need to adjust some of his fighting stances, maneuvers, etc. 

6 hours ago, bdoble97 said:

Perfect example. Like I have been saying I just don't see Kaladin using shardplat 

Most people who gained shardplate probably had to adjust their fighting style to compensate since I doubt most shardholders gained the shardplate then learned how to fight. As such, I don't see why Kaladin would have a problem with adjusting, unless you think that he's so ingrained into his current fighting style he would be completely unable to adjust it, despite us knowing that he's capable of learning new fighting styles. 

[shadowwisp]

If Kaladin and Szeth end up having a rematch, I suspect he will desperately need the shardplate.

Even without Nightblood, Szeth is personally being trained by a Herald.  

On 10/13/2016 at 7:43 PM, bdoble97 said:

He does not have that mindset of a tank just run in there and do as much damage to the enemy as possible even if it does damage to yourself. 

But is that not exactly what he did in the end of book 1? First to revere lash to draw all the enemy arrows towards his shield. It would have worked better if he had a stronger shield.....or shardplate. Then he ran solo into the middle of the enemy army to soak up as much attention as possible to let the other bridgemen place the bridge. You can't be more of a tank than that. 

 

And now that Kaladin is going to get a full team of squires, he is certainly going to be leading the charge into battle. If he ends up dying, presumably his squires will lose their abilities. So again, best interest for Kaladin to wear some shardplate.  

Edited October 15, 2016 by shadowwisp

[Eki]

11 hours ago, Tariniel said:

Seems strange considering they fly through the air and are generally moving quickly due to their Lashes.

Having shardplate wouldn't actually slow a Windrunner down. Lashing works by changing gravity. He's not being pushed - he's falling. The acceleration is the same, regardless of mass. He would need more force to stop if he hit a surface, but that's not always a bad thing, and Shardplate gives strength.