What Shards do we know of

[King Cole he/him]

I've been wondering how many of the shards we actually know to exist and where they reside. I know that Honor is on Roshar, and ruin and preservation are on scadrial. But where are the rest and how many in total do we know?

[Pagerunner he/him]

The list is:

• Roshar: Honor, Cultivation
• Braize (in the Roshar system): Odium
• Scadrial: Harmony (Ruin/Preservation)
• Sel: Dominion, Devotion
• Nalthis: Endowment
• Taldain: Autonomy
• Not on planets: At least two, one of which is Ambition

Of other Shards we know, the only other piece of information is that there is a Shard that wants to hide and survive (although that's only tangentially related to its Intent). It could be the second Shard not on a planet, but it might not be.

We can theorize that there are Shards associated with remaining magic systems we've seen hinted at (Yolish Lightweaving, and Aethers). Since all formalized magic systems are associated with Shards, it would make sense that Yolen and whatever world the Aethers are from have at least one Shard on them.

We can also theorize that Silverlight is built around the second Shard that isn't on a planet. Silverlight is a city located entirely in the Cognitive Realm, not bound to a Physical location. Obviously, something screwy is going on, so many of us think there's a Shard there. Brandon has been closed-lipped on the subject.

So, even with my best guesses, that still leaves at least one Shard unaccounted for, unless there's another doubling-up on one of the worlds. (Which I find unlikely, based on how Khriss calls that uncommon in Arcanum Unbounded. If there were three double-systems, one triple-system, and two not in systems, that would only leave 5 single-worlds, not even twice as many as there are single-worlds.) The Shards we don't yet know, Brandon is playing very close to his chest.

[Oversleep]

http://coppermind.net/wiki/Shard#Known_Shards

I just need to edit as Ambition is definitely not on Threnody.

[Weltall]

We know the names and locations (more or less) of ten Shards and know a tiny bit about one or two others but only in terms of vague hints.

[Weltall]

6 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

We can theorize that there are Shards associated with remaining magic systems we've seen hinted at (Yolish Lightweaving, and Aethers). Since all formalized magic systems are associated with Shards, it would make sense that Yolen and whatever world the Aethers are from have at least one Shard on them.

Technically, Yolish Lightweaving predates the Shattering (confirmed for whatever it's worth in the Liar of Partinel sample chapters and implicit in the Words of Radiance Ars Arcanum) so it's probably not drawing on any specific Shard. The Aethers are in a grey area where as an alternative to being related to an unknown Shard they could be pre-Shattering due to the Liar sample (though Brandon and Peter have indicated this is now extremely unlikely) or they could be associated with Preservation and Ruin somehow due to specific elements from Aether being cannibalized into Mistborn's Ruin (Word of Peter here) and some mentions in newer works that could be interpreted as supporting that. But it's all speculative at this point so they certainly could have a Shard of their own and we won't know until Brandon rewrites it.

[Pagerunner he/him]

15 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Technically, Yolish Lightweaving predates the Shattering (confirmed for whatever it's worth in the Liar of Partinel sample chapters and implicit in the Words of Radiance Ars Arcanum) so it's probably not drawing on any specific Shard. The Aethers are in a grey area where as an alternative to being related to an unknown Shard they could be pre-Shattering due to the Liar sample (though Brandon and Peter have indicated this is now extremely unlikely) or they could be associated with Preservation and Ruin somehow due to specific elements from Aether being cannibalized into Mistborn's Ruin (Word of Peter here) and some mentions in newer works that could be interpreted as supporting that. But it's all speculative at this point so they certainly could have a Shard of their own and we won't know until Brandon rewrites it.

I did lead in by saying it could be theorized, just to illustrate that even with our most extreme guesses, we can't account for all the Shards. But as long as we're going down this road... magic systems all draw energy from Shards, the end-positive ones at least. The power to push in Allomancy is coming from Preservation, the power to enact an Aon's program is coming from both Dominion and Devotion, the power that animates a Lifeless is from Endowment. Conservation of energy hasn't been broken in the cosmere, it's just been twisted through application of Investiture, which by all accounts we've seen is associated with Shards. If Hoid has used Lightweaving on-screen (in Warbreaker, or even in Way of Kings), then he is using energy, using Investiture, from somewhere to do it. Either he's 'hacking' it in like Vasher has done through using Investiture of a different Shard (i.e. Hoid still powers his Lightweaving through Stormlight), or there's a new source of Investiture for Yolen's magics after Adonalsium was Shattered, if a Shard took up the existing magic systems like Harmony now powers Allomancy. (This is necessitated on a difference in definitions between Shattered and Splintered. As far as I'm aware, only Adonalsium has been referred to as Shattered, and only Shards have been referred to as Splintered. A Splintered entity is still whole in some senses, like Seons are still of Devotion and the spren are still of Honor, and magic systems of both those Shards still function. But a Shattered entity no longer exists, and stops powering a magic system.)

All that goes to say, magic has to draw on a specific something for Investiture. Yolish magic can't be powered by Adonalsium, since he's gone. It needs to be a Shard, either a local Shard through hacking, or a Yolish Shard that took up the mantle of that magic. (I am more taking issue with the possibility that Yolish Lightweaving doesn't draw on a Shard, not whether or not it's likely that Yolen has a Shard. Although I'm still pretty sure for other reasons that there's a Shard on Yolen.)

[King Cole he/him]

So we have Odium, honor, cultivation, autonomy, ruin, preservation, dominion, devotion, and ambition, and endowment? Does it seem likely that the being that they call "Trell" is a new shard, one we already know, or something new?

[Pagerunner he/him]

25 minutes ago, King Cole said:

So we have Odium, honor, cultivation, autonomy, ruin, preservation, dominion, devotion, and ambition, and endowment? Does it seem likely that the being that they call "Trell" is a new shard, one we already know, or something new?

The metal that was used in Bleeder's spike was from a Shard we knew in 2015, which excludes Ambition. Now, there are cases where Trell the Shard might have gotten a hold of another Shard's god metal, and Trell is actually a Shard we haven't seen (or not even a Shard at all). But, based on the Taldain essay in Arcanum Unbounded, Autonomy is the current front-runner for Trell's true identity in many of our minds. But there are still people who will suggest Odium or Dominion are actually behind Trell.

[Yitzi2]

23 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

The list is:

• Roshar: Honor, Cultivation
• Braize (in the Roshar system): Odium
• Scadrial: Harmony (Ruin/Preservation)
• Sel: Dominion, Devotion
• Nalthis: Endowment
• Taldain: Autonomy
• Not on planets: At least two, one of which is Ambition

Of other Shards we know, the only other piece of information is that there is a Shard that wants to hide and survive (although that's only tangentially related to its Intent). It could be the second Shard not on a planet, but it might not be.

We can theorize that there are Shards associated with remaining magic systems we've seen hinted at (Yolish Lightweaving, and Aethers). Since all formalized magic systems are associated with Shards, it would make sense that Yolen and whatever world the Aethers are from have at least one Shard on them.

We can also theorize that Silverlight is built around the second Shard that isn't on a planet. Silverlight is a city located entirely in the Cognitive Realm, not bound to a Physical location. Obviously, something screwy is going on, so many of us think there's a Shard there. Brandon has been closed-lipped on the subject.

So, even with my best guesses, that still leaves at least one Shard unaccounted for, unless there's another doubling-up on one of the worlds. (Which I find unlikely, based on how Khriss calls that uncommon in Arcanum Unbounded. If there were three double-systems, one triple-system, and two not in systems, that would only leave 5 single-worlds, not even twice as many as there are single-worlds.) The Shards we don't yet know, Brandon is playing very close to his chest.

Yolish Lightweaving is probably not associated with any of the Shards, as it seems to predate them.  It may, however, have had the same relationship with Adonalsium as the other systems do with the Shards that power them.

[King Cole he/him]

18 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

The metal that was used in Bleeder's spike was from a Shard we knew in 2015, which excludes Ambition. Now, there are cases where Trell the Shard might have gotten a hold of another Shard's god metal, and Trell is actually a Shard we haven't seen (or not even a Shard at all). But, based on the Taldain essay in Arcanum Unbounded, Autonomy is the current front-runner for Trell's true identity in many of our minds. But there are still people who will suggest Odium or Dominion are actually behind Trell.

Yeah, I thought it seemed likely that Odium is Trell because of his tendency to shatter other shards

[Weltall]

20 minutes ago, King Cole said:

Yeah, I thought it seemed likely that Odium is Trell because of his tendency to shatter other shards

That's not unreasonable (and there's some other material in Bands of Mourning that seems Odium-ish) but Shadows of Self points very strongly to Trell being Autonomy, as do some recent Words of Brandon about Autonomy's holder Bavadin. Which doesn't preclude the (quite likely) possibility that both Shards are currently interfering on Scadrial, but with Autonomy being the more 'public' of the two.

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

On 3/27/2017 at 0:14 PM, Pagerunner said:

All that goes to say, magic has to draw on a specific something for Investiture. Yolish magic can't be powered by Adonalsium, since he's gone. It needs to be a Shard, either a local Shard through hacking, or a Yolish Shard that took up the mantle of that magic. (I am more taking issue with the possibility that Yolish Lightweaving doesn't draw on a Shard, not whether or not it's likely that Yolen has a Shard. Although I'm still pretty sure for other reasons that there's a Shard on Yolen.)

I bolded that bit for emphasis, because I'm not entirely sure that's a given. I mean, yes, we know that Adonalsium is shattered, but we do know of at least some instances where his Investiture remains independent of the sixteen Shards that are made up of most of it. After all, many of the spren on Roshar are specifically said to predate the Shattering, and to be splinters of Adonalsium and his Investiture, right? So its not beyond the realm of possibility that there might remain some lingering, ambient Investiture outside of the Shards themselves, and that this could be used to power Yolish Lightweaving, at least if you're someone very knowledgeable about magic, like Hoid is. Actually, given that the only time we've seen Hoid use Lightweaving is on Roshar (correct me if I'm wrong, but his tricks on Sel and Nalthis are not confirmed to be Lightweaving and could have been done in other ways) - so perhaps its better to say that if indeed, Roshar is the only place we've seen Hoid use Lightweaving, that could possibly be because its one of the few places where Adonalsium's pre-Shattering Investiture is present enough for him to hack and power a pre-Shattering magic.

[Yitzi2]

Also, we have seen Splintered shards fuel magic systems, so maybe Shattering is likewise not an issue in this regard.  And even if it is, it's possible that Hoid's collection of so many different forms of Shardic investiture has an effect in this regard.

[Pagerunner he/him]

12 hours ago, ROSHtaFARian2.0 said:

I bolded that bit for emphasis, because I'm not entirely sure that's a given. I mean, yes, we know that Adonalsium is shattered, but we do know of at least some instances where his Investiture remains independent of the sixteen Shards that are made up of most of it. After all, many of the spren on Roshar are specifically said to predate the Shattering, and to be splinters of Adonalsium and his Investiture, right? So its not beyond the realm of possibility that there might remain some lingering, ambient Investiture outside of the Shards themselves, and that this could be used to power Yolish Lightweaving, at least if you're someone very knowledgeable about magic, like Hoid is. Actually, given that the only time we've seen Hoid use Lightweaving is on Roshar (correct me if I'm wrong, but his tricks on Sel and Nalthis are not confirmed to be Lightweaving and could have been done in other ways) - so perhaps its better to say that if indeed, Roshar is the only place we've seen Hoid use Lightweaving, that could possibly be because its one of the few places where Adonalsium's pre-Shattering Investiture is present enough for him to hack and power a pre-Shattering magic.

4 minutes ago, Yitzi2 said:

Also, we have seen Splintered shards fuel magic systems, so maybe Shattering is likewise not an issue in this regard.  And even if it is, it's possible that Hoid's collection of so many different forms of Shardic investiture has an effect in this regard.

I'll admit that it's hard to say conclusively what is or isn't possible, but I'll lay out in more detail what I understand as the difference between Shattering and Splintering, and where I view magic systems as originating from.

Magic systems and Investiture are all 'of' a particular Shard, with Adonalsium also fitting that bill before the Shattering. Magic systems are an outgrowth of a Shard Investing in a world, and when the magic system is used the users will draw energy from that Shard in a manner determined by both the world of origin and the Shard itself. These are typically not limited by location in the Physical Realm (with the exception of the Dor); when Hoid used Allomancy on Roshar, he drew power from Harmony in the manner determined by the interaction of Harmony and Scadrial. The source of power can change (Stormlight looks like it has serious potential to power both Awakening and Sand Mastery, if people can figure out the tricks), but the presence of the magic system, the structure that defines what is possible and how it's accomplished, needs to be tied to a both a Shard and a world.

So, why don't I think Adonalsium can be a magical progenitor, even though Honor still can? It has to do with the difference between Shattering and Splintering, which as I understand are not interchangeable. Both are similar in that they involve the power of a Shard being divided up. But I think the large-scale implications on the being that has been divided are different.

In Splintering, the pieces do not lose their original association with the Shard's Intent. Even though Honor has been Shattered, the spren are still pieces of Honor (or Cultivation, or a mixture of the two). That investiture, even though it is separate from the bulk of the Shard, knows it's still part of the Shard. This is the case on Elantris as well, where Seons and Skaze are still part of their Shard, but don't provide enough of a Cognitive relief valve. And somewhat similar on Scadrial, even though there has been no Splintering taking place. But harmonium contains two kinds of Investiture in conflict, which contributes to its instability. It's not a metal associated with Harmony; it's a metal associated with both Ruin and Preservation, which still have distinct flavors of Investiture even though the Shards themselves are held by the same Vessel.

At the Shattering, they didn't just divide Adonalsium up into pieces; they created sixteen new Intents, the Shards, which could interact with planets in the same way that Adonalsium did to create magic systems. There were Splinters of Adonalsium before the Shattering, which still survive in some way, but Splinters cannot create magic systems, only Shards can. And Shards are not Splinters of Adonalsium. Surgebinding isn't of Stormfather, it's still of Honor, even though he's been Splintered. (Again, maybe of Cultivation as well, depending on what we see going forward. For the sake of this illustration, Cultivation's exact participation doesn't matter.)

Let's compare it to ice cream. You've got a big tub of boring unflavored ice cream. You take pieces out of it to make cones; we'll say that's using the magic system. And then you can also fill quart containers that you put in the freezer that people can buy individually; those are Splinters of Adonalsium. There's only one thing on the menu, one 'Shard' that can create magic systems by interacting with planets or create Splinters. But then, one day, you divide your big tub into sixteen smaller tubs, and give each of them their flavors. That's the Shattering; you've created new flavors of Investiture. You change your menu to include sixteen flavors, but you have to take off the unflavored. There are still quarts left over (Splinters of Adonalsium), but you can't hand out cones anymore, since the Adonalsium tub no longer exists. (i.e. Adonalsium can't power magic systems). A quart isn't enough to add corresponding cones to the menu; a Splinter isn't enough to create a formal magic system.

So, what happens to people like Hoid, who are still eating 'unflavored' ice cream? Well, I'll need to alter my metaphor, since it's starting to break down. Magic systems aren't flavors anymore; they're specific dishes. You can take vanilla and make a banana split, you can take mint and make a shamrock shake, you can take pistachio and make something that nobody wants to eat (no offense, pistachio fans). I think it's possible that, after the Shattering, the 'unflavored' ice cream in a magical banana split has been replaced with vanilla; the Yolish magic system is powered by another Shard, but the dish itself remains largely unchanged.

The other alternative that I see is that the counter no longer serves banana splits, and Hoid brings his own bananas and runs around swiping other peoples' ice cream, then dousing it all in chocolate syrup so he doesn't taste whatever flavor it was he stole. That would be using localized Investiture to power a magic system. His spiritweb holds the ability to Lightweave, but the normal way of powering it (directly from Adonalsium) will no longer work since the Adonalsium tub isn't at the counter. That's what Vasher does, as well; where he comes from, he needs to eat rocky road, but it's expensive. So he goes to Roshar, where he can get chocolate for cheap, but he hasn't figured out how to make a good chocolate-and-brownies recipe like he used to have back home. (He can consume Stormlight to survive, but not use it to Awaken.)

So, if you've gotten lost in my rambling or just feel a need to go get some ice cream, here's all I'm trying to say: Shattering will destroy a Shard. Splintering will not destroy a Shard. Because Adonalsium was Shattered, and no longer exists, it can't power a magic system. That's how I distinguish between the two cases; because Brandon has used different terminology (Shattering vs Splintering), there must be differences. I don't think the pieces of Adonalsium left behind are enough to replicate the planet-Shard interactions that create magic systems in the first place.