The Sovereign Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 (edited) I was just going through the WoBs on Arcanum from the Oathbringer signings and I stumbled upon this gem... Quote #2 Share Play/Pause Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] A friend of mine wanted me to ask: Was the cataclysm that <rocked> Ashyn and forced its inhabitants into the flying cities Investiture-based, and if it was was it Shardic in nature? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] The same cataclysm that the-- did you finish [Oathbringer]? Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Yes. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] The same cataclysm that they were fleeing, that they caused, is the one that forced people into the skies. #surgebinding #the silence divine So, we have confirmation that the humans who migrated to Roshar (The true Voidbringers) are indeed the people of Ashyn. I hadn't seen anyone discussing this other than a few brief speculations so I figured it was worthy of drawing attention to. Edited December 5, 2017 by The Sovereign Gah... as much as I am loving Arcanum, it is not great for formatting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Investor Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 Nice, that's good to know. Now the question is when did that happen, and were they the first humans to migrate to Roshar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Spiral Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 It's probable that they were the first humans. It seems that Aimians and Listeners/Singers were the native population. Human refugees to the world were given Shinovar as it was the most hospitable region for the human like plants and animals. As Humans have a tendency to do, they made like Captain Kirk through the native population and each other. This led to a population boom which led to an expansion drive. Over time the humans adapted and evolved. This leads to peoples like Herdaz with crystalline fingernails (a diluted Listener trait perhaps) and the physically big Horneaters (with their closeness to the cognitive realm, ability to almost hear the rhythms and perhaps other traits that aren't explicitly stated. It is probable given their isolated tribal life that Horneaters have a more recent divergence from Listeners than other nationalities. Perhaps Rock's origin story was more factual than even he believed? This could go both ways. Maybe they were humans looking for a new place to live. Or maybe they were Listeners trying to avoid what was happening to them during desolations. Just how high are the Peaks? Are they above the Storms like Urithiru? Back to the original point, there may have been pre-voidbringer human like visitors such as Nalthians or Elantrians depending how far back the Cognitive Realm travelling community had been around. But I doubt there has been a "native" human population before the voidbringers based on just how inhospitable and "unmammalian" the planet and local biolife are to humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan he/him Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 (edited) That's a great WoB! There have been some really good questions on the tour and the new Arcanum makes it so easy yo read them all. The thing that has bothered me about all this is one particular WoB https://wob.coppermind.net/events/188-general-reddit-2015/#e3922 Quote HorseCannon I didn't realize horneaters had parshmen blood, didn't even realize that was possible. How closely are humans and parshmen related, do they have a common ancestor? Or is one an artificially created version of the other? Brandon Sanderson There was intermixing long ago. Horneaters and Herdazians are both a result. (Signs of this are the stone carapace on Herdazian fingernails and the Horneater extra jaw pieces--in the back of the mouth--for breaking shells.) Humans and parshmen don't have a common ancestor. And as a side note, both of these strains of humanoids predate the ascension of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium. I think though I have mistakingly taken "And as a side note, both of these strains of humanoids predate the ascension of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium." to mean on Roshar when I think he meant in the cosmere not specifically on Roshar. So I couldn't understand how the "human invaders" brought Odium if they predated his ascension. Edit: Just saw this WoB. Ok so this really sheds some light on the subject to me on the order of events. So humans arrive on Roshar but they didnt really bring Odium. I am wondering though when he says "he was instrumental in what happened there." does he mean Ashyn? Quote Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW] What was the order of the Shards coming to Roshar and changing allegiences? Did Humans come with Odium? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] So, you're talking about on Roshar specifically? So, Odium had visited Roshar. The humans gave him more of an ear. The Dawnsingers would have considered him the god of the people who had come, but... I mean, it wasn't like they necessarily brought him. He was capable of getting around before that. I mean, he did kinda come along with them, he was instrumental in what happened there. Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW] Okay, but [...] and he was separate, and after Honor and Cultivation had really settled there? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes, he was after Honor and Cultivation had settled. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/262-oathbringer-glasgow-signing/#e8808 Edited December 5, 2017 by StormingTexan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 I think they were the first humans because the translated Dawnchant talks about the Voidbringers as if they'd never encountered a human before. They talk about them being soft and unable to hear Roshar. I'm not sure if they were the last though. It's weird that the Shin look so different from the Alethei and Azir. Maybe there were different tribes that all came at the same time and looked different and only the pale, "big Shin-eyed" people stayed in Shinovar and everyone else left to be able to access Stormlight. Or the Shin mostly stayed, some left then later waves of people who look like the Alethi, Azir and other came. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leuthie Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 4500+ years is plenty of time for groups of people to differentiate their looks naturally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak he/him Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Leuthie said: 4500+ years is plenty of time for groups of people to differentiate their looks naturally Or for there to have been multiple influxes of Humans from other worlds. IIRC Brandon implied the Alethi were from Nalthis when talking about peculiar hair behaviour. Plus one of the other groups (I think Irali) have im#megrated via multiple planets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 14 minutes ago, Dahak said: IIRC Brandon implied the Alethi were from Nalthis when talking about peculiar hair behaviour. This I'd like to see. We've known about the Iri visiting multiple worlds, but the Alethi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak he/him Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 Just now, The One Who Connects said: This I'd like to see. We've known about the Iri visiting multiple worlds, but the Alethi? Quote http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1108 Question The hair color: is there a link between the hair color in Warbreaker and the hair color in—like with the Alethi always have black, and I can't remember the other country that always have their gold hair coloring? Brandon Sanderson Yes. You are noticing something very interesting which was done deliberately. Not as definite as I thought but still an implication. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir of the Void he/him Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 3 hours ago, Leuthie said: 4500+ years is plenty of time for groups of people to differentiate their looks naturally I'd be shocked if that were the case - human evolution in our world has been a fair bit slower, with a few isolated exceptions - and it would also require fairly strong selective pressures that also vary widely between regions. The theory that different nations/tribes/warbands/whatevers of humans settled in a series of waves moving out from (presumably) Shinovar would make more sense to me. For example, the arrangement of skin tones makes no sense if you assume it evolved in place. To Wit: Skin tone is an adaptation to sunlight intensity - more sunlight requires more melanin to protect the skin, while less sunlight requires less melanin to allow proper synthesis of vitamin D. Accordingly, (natural, native) skin tones on Earth are mostly a gradient darkest near the equator and lighter further away Roshar (probably south of the equator, so reverse the Earth expectation) is in fact all over the place. The (light?) tan Alethi are right next to the blue Natan and the Irish-esque Vedens; the Vedens are fairly close to the (dark?) tan Makabaki, with the pale Shin next to them. The pale/blond Iri are immediately north of the Makabaki, with the (brown?) Reshi at the furthest north. Granted, this could be a result of minor admixture with the Singers inhabiting each of their respective regions, with the Shin representing the original purestrain humans who came from the original world, though that raises other questions, largely related to the lack of obvious Listener traits in the majority of (still-differentiated) Rosharan human nations. The more plausible scenario seems to be that several distinction groups of humans - probably ten groups corresponding to the ten Silver Kingdoms - escaped the original homeworld of Man. Perhaps via transition to the Cognitive Realm, which might offer refuge from a Physical catastrophe. From there, they transitioned to Roshar, set up their own subdivisions of Shinover, and eventually left to divide the entire continent between themselves. If the Oathgates either predate mankind's arrival or were all created while humans were limited to Shinovar, it could explain the pattern of division, with each tribe claiming one of the Oathgates and the territory beyond after subjugating the Parshmen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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