Mid-Range Game 38: The Council of Elrond

[GoWibble he/him]

Rust and Ruin, this game is hard to figure out who is corrupted and who is not. I'm going to go out on a wing and elect Stink to die journey honorably on this quest.

---

I'm not going to be doing much RP yet either. I'm working on it. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by GoWibble

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

I've got like 10 minutes before work, so I don't have time to fill out an RP, but I will later.

For now, my sample size is small, and I'm awful at judging these sorts of things, but I don't see a major difference in tone between Aranmir and Kavan.

I believe Aman when he says he'd rather get out of this game early. However, I think if he was an Elim, he'd be making this same move, to get a point for his team with minimum exposure of his teammates. @Amanuensis, if you want to be elected, you're going to have to do better than "elect me, or else I might spend the time I just said I don't have screwing with the Village."

@GoWibble why Stink, specifically? Did something about his RP ring true to you? Or is this vote just totally at random? It's okay either way, I'm just curious.

1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said:

But I’m feeling a lot better today. In lieu of that, I will be voting on Striker. 

 I think you mean, "in view of that"?  "In lieu" means "instead", so you had a choice of feeling better, but you decided you'd rather put a meaningless vote on yourself.

[GoWibble he/him]

3 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

@GoWibble why Stink, specifically? Did something about his RP ring true to you? Or is this vote just totally at random? It's okay either way, I'm just curious.

Well, why not push something that stinks into a volcano...

Sorry Stink... 

 

I just feel like Stink will do better at RP than others

Sorry others...

[Young Bard he/him]

Phellom could hardly believe his ears. He had not yet even spoken at the council, merely listened to Elrond's tale with a small amount of panic, and yet two had already suggested his name to the Council. Maybe Phellom should try not-talking more often. He tried to imagine how he would appear to the other - since his packed clothes had been either filthy or destroyed entirely, he had been given an Imladris garb to wear, a flowing costume that seemed more designed for appearance than function. It's quite possible that he looked almost regal sitting there.

He tried to imagine how one of the other Mirkwood elves would phrase it. "If others think me suitable for this quest, then I, Phellom would consider it my honour to accept that position, and take the Ring to Mordor."

He paused. Did he just go through that without stumbling or saying something stupid? 

He stood up, to go and stand before the central table with Elrond as one of the seven who was to go on the quest. As he stood up, he felt the unfamiliar Imladris garment tangle underneath his legs and, unable to correct in time, went crashing to the floor, barely getting his hands out in time to stop his face cracking into the hard stone floor.

Blushing furiously, he quickly returned to his seat, careful not to trip over a second time - he could feel a mix of stares and chuckles from the others present. Let's just pretend that didn't happen, shall we?

---

Seriously, people? I say "I'll have plenty of time to post after one final exam I have", and you all think that means it's a great time to vote me out.  I'm fine with being elected, just mostly amused by your timing.

I couldn't figure out how to fit seamlessly into the RP, but if I had to vote for someone else... Sorry, Aman, but there's no way I'm ever trusting you, which I think you expected. I also would like to hear a little more from Striker (and especially from GoWibble, who hasn't posted yet who has posted one line voting for Stink, presumably because Stink has gone and PM'ed everybody, and GoWibble trusted what he saw in that PM? I'd like a bit more of an explanation than that.) whenever they're able, before I feel any more inclined to trust them, which leaves... no-one who currently has votes on them.

Kas would probably be the best choice out of those who have posted in my mind, but paranoia is stopping me well short of saying I actually trust them. It depends a little on GoWibble's alignment - if Wibble is Corrupted, it's more likely Kas is too. If Kas is Corrupted, then I think Wibble is definitely Corrupted as well.

[Kasimir he/him]

Aranmir raised an eyebrow when the elf who had first brought out the Ring put his name forward as one of the candidates for the Fellowship. Certainly, the Ringbearer would need someone who had some measure of skill with the blade, and who knew his way around the wilderness they had to travel, but he knew nothing of the elf at all - Gwendolyn, had that been her name? - and the choice left him with some measure of unease.

Yuriel had stepped forward and offered her name for consideration as a candidate, mentioning that she would be busy with personal projects in the near future - possibly the jewelry she was famous for in Imladris - and would like the choice to be over and done with, one way or another. Aranmir supposed she did not expect the council meetings to be over anytime soon.

He was not sure about that, though. He knew a little about Yuriel - they had crossed paths on occasion before, but her reputation preceded her. It was said she had found the Ring, a long time ago, before it was lost to the Anduin. Before the Ring, or so Aranmir had been told, had crossed paths with a halfling by the name of Bilbo Baggins, and a group of dwarves seeking to restore a lost throne. It took strength of character to behold the Ring and to give it up. Isildur had proved wanting in that regard. Aranmir had not yet been so tested, and perhaps he feared his own response, a little.

"I do not distrust Yuriel," he said, carefully. "All the same, I do not find myself - quite - convinced by her words. I think that I would therefore withhold my nomination from her for the time being." He had considered the man in the black hat, (GoWibble) but something about how the man carried himself did not sit right to Aranmir. He was glad he had held his tongue. There was Phellom, the elf delegate from Mirkwood, who had just gone and tripped over his own feet again. Aranmir did not feel particularly strongly about Phellom, one way or another. However, he distrusted the way the field had narrowed now, and so he sought to cast his net wider. "I believe that I would be of aid to the Ringbearer," Aranmir acknowledged. And yet, it was the suddenness, he supposed, that perturbed him. 

Or perhaps it was that he had not imagined it happening this way. He had meant to offer his sword to the Ringbearer, not to have it offered for him. 

They had little basis for trust right now. And too few of them had responded to his overtures. In light of that, Aranmir was not certain that the sudden swing to his own name as a candidate was not an overture from the Shadow. 

There was one, though, who merely observed. Aranmir turned his gaze to them. "I am not sufficiently convinced enough to cast my nomination," he announced. "It interests me, however, what that one is doing." (xinoehp512)

[OOC: I simply am not feeling any of the existing choices or pseudochoices very much right now. Eru, I don't even feel myself, even if I could vote for myself!  Consider this a challenge, then, to anyone suitably invested in the lynch. If you can convince me, my vote is yours. Otherwise, I'm just gonna do whatever I want. Which, apparently, means voting the Observer right now. Go figure.]

Edited November 12, 2019 by Kasimir

[Amanuensis he/him]

1 hour ago, Wonko the Sane said:

I believe Aman when he says he'd rather get out of this game early. However, I think if he was an Elim, he'd be making this same move, to get a point for his team with minimum exposure of his teammates. @Amanuensis, if you want to be elected, you're going to have to do better than "elect me, or else I might spend the time I just said I don't have screwing with the Village."

Honestly, if I was an elim I would have claimed it from the very start. There's nothing I love more than being an out-in-the-open eliminator that the village can't do anything about, and it was a big part of my motivation for joining this game at all. I would spend the entire game playing I-know-you-knows with everyone, because that's a lot more fun than lying and pretending to be something I'm not. As for the paraphrased words in the quote, that's not my point. I'm saying I probably won't be able to make enough worthy contributions to this game to be worth keeping around, and even in the off-chance I was evil, I would do a lot more damage to the village the longer I'm kept around.

ED1T:

1 hour ago, Young Bard said:

I couldn't figure out how to fit seamlessly into the RP, but if I had to vote for someone else... Sorry, Aman, but there's no way I'm ever trusting you, which I think you expected.

And this is the exact reason why I play less often or have less motivation for the games I do decide to participate in. What's the point in me ever trying when people are just going to tell me "there's no way I'm ever trusting you"?

I'm not taking it personally or anything. It just completely defeats the purpose of joining. Trends are great to look at, but they should never be the end-all be-all. The game I mistook Brass for Rioting and got lynched for it is a perfect recent example of unfair prejudice due to paranoia. At the core of things, each game is its own separate microcosm. Players should take what's happening in the now for a lot more merit than what's happened in the past. Especially in the far past. People change, adapt, evolve, and falter. Playstyles too.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Amanuensis

[Rathmaskal he/him]

5 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Amanuensis. I know this vote doesn't matter, but it illustrates my stance nicely.

Although my exams are now over, I'm behind on my writing goals for NaNoWriMo and would like to make that my biggest priority for the rest of the month. In order to facilitate that, I propose we elect myself to the Council effective immediately. Why am I the best choice for today? Well, I'm not Corrupted, much to my disappointment, which everyone here can take for a grain of salt. But for anyone who believes I may be evil; wouldn't it be much easier to confirm that now rather than give me the opportunity to manipulate people throughout the cycles and/or plan gambits for my team? I'm a momentum based player from either alignment. The more time I have to work, the better I tend to do. So from my perspective it's the best plan for the village to get rid of me now since I can't offer much in the analysis and roleplay departments.

Bolded for emphasis...I'm 100% on board with this.

Aman

(The red voting I find mildly entertaining in this game...we're not actually killing people, but I guess we're saying this is a suicide mission, so we kind of are killing people?)

[StrikerEZ he/him]

1 hour ago, Wonko the Sane said:

 I think you mean, "in view of that"?  "In lieu" means "instead", so you had a choice of feeling better, but you decided you'd rather put a meaningless vote on yourself.

I honestly don’t know what I meant. In view doesn’t sound quite right, and I can’t think of another way to say what I thought in lieu meant.

Also, Striker, Aman

@Amanuensis I feel really good about your last post. I don’t have time to explain, but tag me and I’ll do it when I have time later.

[GoWibble he/him]

1 hour ago, Young Bard said:

(and especially from GoWibble, who hasn't posted yet who has posted one line voting for Stink, presumably because Stink has gone and PM'ed everybody, and GoWibble trusted what he saw in that PM?

I honestly forgot about that PM. I never responded, come to think of it...

Sorry Stink... 

[Young Bard he/him]

1 hour ago, Amanuensis said:

And this is the exact reason why I play less often or have less motivation for the games I do decide to participate in. What's the point in me ever trying when people are just going to tell me "there's no way I'm ever trusting you"?

I'm not taking it personally or anything. It just completely defeats the purpose of joining. Trends are great to look at, but they should never be the end-all be-all. The game I mistook Brass for Rioting and got lynched for it is a perfect recent example of unfair prejudice due to paranoia. At the core of things, each game is its own separate microcosm. Players should take what's happening in the now for a lot more merit than what's happened in the past. Especially in the far past. People change, adapt, evolve, and falter. Playstyles too.

It's less "There's no way I'm ever trusting you", and more "There's no way I'm ever trusting you Cycle One on the weight of your words alone." If both of us are still around 2-3 cycles down the track, and you've consistently voted on people who aren't Corrupted, then that would be enough for me to trust you, for example. In an ordinary game, I specifically try not to lynch people who I have good reason to be paranoid about for this very reason, because I can observe them for a longer period of time before making my decision if I think they're genuinely suspicious or if it's just my paranoia. It just so happens that with the way this game is flipped that happens to work against you instead of for you, which is unfortunate, but I think is still reasonable.

[Amanuensis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Young Bard said:

It's less "There's no way I'm ever trusting you", and more "There's no way I'm ever trusting you Cycle One on the weight of your words alone." If both of us are still around 2-3 cycles down the track, and you've consistently voted on people who aren't Corrupted, then that would be enough for me to trust you, for example. In an ordinary game, I specifically try not to lynch people who I have good reason to be paranoid about for this very reason, because I can observe them for a longer period of time before making my decision if I think they're genuinely suspicious or if it's just my paranoia. It just so happens that with the way this game is flipped that happens to work against you instead of for you, which is unfortunate, but I think is still reasonable.

"There's no way I'm ever trusting you Cycle One on the weight of your words alone" is a lot more reasonable of a statement. I recommend leading with that next time

That said, what's your opinion on my "if I were evil I would just scream it to the heavens and start trolling" thing, though? I think that argument has a ton of merit, personally xD

[Young Bard he/him]

Just now, Amanuensis said:

"There's no way I'm ever trusting you Cycle One on the weight of your words alone" is a lot more reasonable of a statement. I recommend leading with that next time 

That said, what's your opinion on my "if I were evil I would just scream it to the heavens and start trolling" thing, though? I think that argument has a ton of merit, personally xD

You're right, I probably should have specified, but I was trying to quickly jot down a few notes, so what I meant to say didn't come across all that clearly. Sorry about that.

That's a good point. But that quickly gets into IKYK territory, since by not doing that you could make this very argument. It also depends on the size of the Elim team, and how many active players specifically you had - if you only had a few active players I could see you needing to avoid that role - we're not likely to appoint a borderline inactive to the council, and needing four seats having one of the active Elim players decide to out themselves to troll the thread could mean that there isn't a fourth Corrupted player that has a decent chance of being elected.

[Kasimir he/him]

Aranmir sighed. He didn't bother to muffle the sound. 

The council was shaping up to have a Phellom-Yuriel debate, which was not proving particularly inspiring. Aranmir wanted the council to shift its gaze elsewhere: what did they think of Gwendolyn, or the man in the black hat. What about Ulmo, who had appeared in and seemingly vanished again in a spray of vapour? What of Robin or many of the others who had spoken once and vanished or not at all? Who would the council pick, if they were forced to select all seven Walkers today? 

Aranmir was neither convinced nor inspired by the arguments thus far, though he did not account himself among the wise. Too, he did not understand the resistance to electing Yuriel to the Fellowship. With several of the council casting votes for Yuriel, further arguments about Yuriel only risked further cementing her as the leading candidate for election, if only so everyone could figure out what was going on. But that was counter to what Phellom appeared to want. 

Astranwir, too, had vanished entirely. Aranmir wanted to know what had become of the Istar. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Kasimir
No justification makes me twitch so i fixed that

[Amanuensis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Young Bard said:

You're right, I probably should have specified, but I was trying to quickly jot down a few notes, so what I meant to say didn't come across all that clearly. Sorry about that.

That's a good point. But that quickly gets into IKYK territory, since by not doing that you could make this very argument. It also depends on the size of the Elim team, and how many active players specifically you had - if you only had a few active players I could see you needing to avoid that role - we're not likely to appoint a borderline inactive to the council, and needing four seats having one of the active Elim players decide to out themselves to troll the thread could mean that there isn't a fourth Corrupted player that has a decent chance of being elected.

Sounds reasonable to me. I would just posit that if numbers were that limited on my theoretical team, I wouldn't try to remove myself from the game first, because my contribution to the team would be a lot more critical.

But as Kasimir just posted, that's enough about me  

[Fifth Scholar he/him]

I am running on next to no time for this game, as stated earlier, but why the votes on Aman out of seemingly nowhere? Them all falling in quick succession makes me suspect at least an Eliminator or two on the bandwagon, whether or not Aman is actually evil (because the Elims could be trying to elect a teammate, or get village cred early and remove a powerful village voice). From my lightning-fast skim of his posts, I will remove my vote on Striker, as his posts do not sound reasonably village enough for me to hold to my initially random pick, and he crucially reinforced the Aman wagon. I don’t necessarily blame him, but will hold him to account for that explanation. 

For now, I’m going Burnt for using her post to generate discussion on a new candidate, not bandwagoning, and for having a significant tone shift from when she was evil. It’s poorly reasoned, yes, but given the time I have any reasoning at all is better than none.  

[Straw he/him]

In my humble opinion Elrond (Elbereth) himself is the best pick for the Fellowship.

[Kasimir he/him]

An interesting response from the halfling shirrif, thought Aranmir. 

He did not especially distrust Tinuial, which was already a significant boost in a council which seemed clouded by suspicion and distrust and simply, ignorance. They knew far too little about most of the choices, and while Lord Elberond no doubt had his reasons, restricting them from offering their own blades on the Quest also left most of them in the uneasy position of having to decide who they trusted the most - or who they trusted the least.

He also agreed with the halfling - and indeed, had commented, both publicly and privately, on his unease about how quickly the discussion had narrowed down to Phellom-or-Yuriel. It struck him that it was a strategically bad position to end up in: to be forced to defend a bottleneck that had been arrived at with startling speed. It was a position that Aranmir sought to avoid, and perhaps Robin had offered him a way of evading that trap yet. [OOC: I especially dislike defending fast discussion bottlenecks, because that's exactly what happened last game - I ended up in a position where it seemed to me as though optimal play was for me to hammer one (Fifth) I actually thought was Corrupted. That might be acceptable tactically but it seems to me that the key is to avoid ending up in such a solution. So I don't want to go back and be cornered again. And of course as I've mentioned previously - it's a discursive trap because the more we talk about this, the more we end up forcing ourselves into that reinforced bottleneck, where the only way to go informationally is to bite the bullet. It's a tactic I intend to keep in mind for future uses when Evil, but I definitely do not want to end up there when playing for Village.]

Yet - Tinuial had been the first to suggest electing Phellom. Aranmir was curious as to why Robin [@Fifth Scholar] had arrived at the conclusion that Tinuial had generated discussion on someone new.

Astranwir [@Straw] had spoken up, only to offer inscrutability. This, Aranmir distrusted, though he had heard it was not unknown of the Istari to speak in cryptic riddles. Ulmo [@STINK] was of a kind, he thought, with all his talk about names and skin, but he hoped that one would make his will known soon. [OOC: I don't play with Straw so people who do, I'd welcome clarification as he appears to be like STINK, but at a glance, I'm noticing a bit of behavioural deviation from the last iteration that makes me uncomfortable. No comment on STINK. STINK will STINK, but I'm not slapping a vote down unless I feel more comfortable.]

"Above all," Aranmir announced, "I am interested in what Aidenn [@Coda] now thinks. He has mentioned he is uncomfortable with the level of discussion in the council, but that perhaps his vote would change. He has more information now, however meagre, than when he first voted for Phellom. What does he think of the situation now? Would he still elect Phellom?"

It was no indicator of trust, but if it were up to him, and if he were forced to elect the Fellowship today, without delay, Aranmir would have chosen himself, and left the rest to fickle chance. It was the best he could bring himself to do right now. [OOC: Actually, if forced, I would probably go for myself and the Fifth-Burnt-Coda set, reasoning (defeasibly) that no matter how many of them are Corrupted, it is unlikely they would all remain Corrupted together, which would give me better odds for my four, and then I'd RNGesus the rest. But I'm clarifying this is a "in the absence of any other solid reasoning" deal, plus I do have stronger negative non-trust feelings on some other players, even if I wouldn't say I trust or have warm fuzzy feelings towards most of the three. But I expect the second day to bring about a little more meat, in which case I will expect to correct these initial impressions and to be able to present candidates I am personally more convinced about.

Edited to add: Plus, I almost expect El to have worked this out already and to prepare to punish players who reason like this - of course it's a major IKYK against the GM, and if anything, I think it's a point on the paucity of what we have to work with that I'm actually considering this line of reasoning more robust than my reads.]

Edited November 13, 2019 by Kasimir

[Guest Coda]

Aidenn listened intently to the discussion. Yes, he could now see that the vote on Phellom was suboptimal, as there were no clues as to his alignment. Aranmir, however, seemed to be an excellent judge of character. Moral, conscientious... Yes, that was the right choice. If he was Corrupted, well done.

"I rescind my vote on Phellom(Young Bard) and instead choose to elect Aranmir(Kasimir) to the Council. He will lead the Fellowship well."

[Kasimir he/him]

Aranmir wasn't certain why, but he felt...uneasy. 

Then again, the arts of war were his strength. He had fought long years to defend Gondor, and the fall of Osgiliath had come as a sudden, shocking loss; he did not account himself a leader of men, though he had led men into battle, nor did he account himself one of the wise, though he remembered a little of the lore that was forgotten, even in the ancient citadel of Minas Tirith.

In the end, while he did not envy the choices left to them, he had to make some contribution or other to the council. Though he had tried nominating the Observer, that had neither stirred the Observer into action, nor had his choice made any noticeable impact on the debates of the day. 

He would say that he was wary of those who had expressed some slight modicum of trust this early on, for as far as Aranmir could see, there was little sufficient reason to trust an interloper newly-arrived from Gondor, and one unknown to all. [OOC: Take it or leave it; I'm just not comfortable with that, as expressed both publicly and in private conversations with other players. Ultimately I have both tactical and strategic reasons for this wariness, though I'm not currently in any danger of being sent on the death mission just yet  ]

That being said, Aranmir knew he had to make a decision soon, although he did not know if it could be a lasting decision. "I would nominate Ulmo," he said, at last. "Surely one revered as a god by the Firstborn would be of aid against such a powerful weapon as Isildur's Bane."

[OOC: Several points as I attempt to gather my woolly thoughts:

• Burnt I trust slightly. I am not especially confident of this, as this is the first day of the council, but that being said, I am noticing a slight difference in her behaviour. Of course, my thoughts about the Fifth-Burnt-Coda collective does not mean that one or two of them can't be Corrupted - if anything, it's a statement about where they all stand in totality. And Burnt might be foolish to not change her playstyle, at least a little, no matter her alignment. So I do not necessarily feel strongly enough about this. That being said, I do trust Burnt most of the trinity, which doesn't say very much.
• No comment on Aman, Fifth, Wonko, STINK, Straw, Aragorn, xinoehp512, Pejidot, Bard.
• I lean slightly negative on Striker, GoWibble, Rathmaskal, and Coda. 
• I expect at least 80% of my evaluations to be wrong, but I don't have enough information to figure where the 20% of correct ones are. My ideal first day election would be Aragorn, but I don't see him being pushed through at this stage and I'll also agree he's really uninformative, so I would not push very hard to get him voted in.
• If Ulmo flips Corrupted, I expect people to do their civic duty and be somewhat suspicious of myself and GoWibble, but also Burnt, who has noted STINK would be in her Special Seven.
• I can be persuaded to revise some of my early judgements - it's probably slightly logically inconsistent that I don't want to do a Bard-Aman vote, yet don't especially suspect either of them. I think it's explainable by the fact I distrust the set-up of the situation but not necessarily the individual players. I may be willing to vote for them at a later stage, at any rate.
• I do not want to vote all my trusts early as I feel election could also be a way of attempting to shut down vocal and helpful players. I've mentioned this previously in PMs in the first iteration. The Corrupted only need four seats - it is fine for them to strategically try to silence players. Whether I am correct in evaluating Burnt as a player worthy of preserving for a later round can be subject to debate. I am willing to be convinced to switch my vote to map onto my actual trusts, as this would give certain information too.]

 

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

Vote tally:

Aman(2): Rath, Striker
Kas (2): Wonko, Coda{2}
Stink (2): GoWibble, Kas{3}

Burnt (1): Fifth{2}
Elbereth(1): Straw
Pejidot (1): Burnt{2}

Bard (0): Burnt{1}, Coda{1}
gowibble(0): Kas{1}
Striker (0): Fifth{1}
Xino(0): Kas{2}

Post counts!

Kas: 5
Aman: 4
Bard: 4
GoWibble: 3
Striker:2
Fifth: 2
Coda: 2
Burnt: 2
Straw: 1
Wonko: 1
Rath: 1
Stink: 1

No posters:
@xinoehp512, @Pejidot, @Aragorn 

 

---

 

Okay thoughts: current concern is that the two current candidates for being put inot the fellowship? They talky players. In fairness, talking is what helps us get to trust people but. There's a concern yknow that getting rid of talky people thiiis early? ehhhh thats dangerous. Also Bard. I'm trying to decide what i want my vote doing. Admitably i'm very very tempted to roll a dice and choose someone entirely random which may be a terrible idea but, eh. EH. EEH!   Or just someones whos not spoken at all hmm. Cause are there people i trust ish right now? Yeah! But I don't want to 'kill' off those trusts right now  its a problem. 

Hm. Yeah lets go with.... Pejidot!  I'd love to hear if you have any thoughts about this game and if theres anyone you trust so far or if theres anyone that makes your eyes narrow a smidge in suspicion

Edited November 13, 2019 by Burnt Spaghetti
Siiigh kas ninjad me so fixing my tally thanks kas -_-

[Kasimir he/him]

[OOC: Brb re-evaluating as I completely missed Wonko's vote on me in my tally even though I'm pretty sure I intellectually knew it was there, but this might change the entire tenor of my analysis. Sorry folks!

Sorry to anyone in my PMs I've confused by forgetting this. I will be back!  ]

---

[Edited to add, OOC: Right, well, I'm too done-in to RP at the moment, and I'm supposed to practice not being judgmental of myself so I will not  Anyway. I am just going to edit my points a bit to accomodate the new information I've received.

• I still trust Burnt slightly, but am warier of Burnt now than I was a few minutes ago  To be fair, she is definitely not playing the same way as she did last iteration but - really, would anyone, if they were Corrupted? I think I am just a bit suspicious as I feel she's supporting me a bit more strongly than my points warrant  She's also neglecting that to some extent, the Corrupted team would almost certainly need a talky player, which could very well be me!
• Still no comment on Aman, Fifth, Wonko, STINK, Straw, Aragorn, xinoehp512, Pejidot, Bard.
• I still lean slightly negative on Striker, GoWibble, Rathmaskal, and Coda. 
• I still expect at least 80% of my evaluations to be wrong, but I don't have enough information to figure where the 20% of correct ones are. My ideal first day election would be Aragorn, but I don't see him being pushed through at this stage and I'll also agree he's really uninformative, so I would not push very hard to get him voted in.
• If Ulmo flips Corrupted, I still expect people to do their civic duty and be somewhat suspicious of myself and GoWibble, but also Burnt, who has noted STINK would be in her Special Seven.  
• I still can be persuaded to revise some of my early judgements - it's probably slightly logically inconsistent that I don't want to do a Bard-Aman vote, yet don't especially suspect either of them. I think it's explainable by the fact I distrust the set-up of the situation but not necessarily the individual players. I may be willing to vote for them at a later stage, at any rate. 
• I still do not want to vote all my trusts early as I feel election could also be a way of attempting to shut down vocal and helpful players. I've mentioned this previously in PMs in the first iteration. The Corrupted only need four seats - it is fine for them to strategically try to silence players. Whether I am correct in evaluating Burnt as a player worthy of preserving for a later round can be subject to debate. I am willing to be convinced to switch my vote to map onto my actual trusts, as this would give certain information too. (And also, the talky player issue - my points apply to my reasoning too! I am fairly (not utterly) certain at least one Corrupted lurks there!)
• On the one hand, Coda swapped the actual terrain from a Phellom-Aman vote to a me-Aman vote, which is kinda great since I've been complaining about the terms of the debate, but which I'm also side-eyeing over for reasons mentioned previously. Then again, I've turned it into a me-Aman-Ulmo vote so uh, yay for variety? I do not know if that brings trust, but I feel this is a data-point worth flagging,
• I am happy to flag that Striker also flagged our local lad lying in lakes distributing Rings (Ulmo) as a potential Special Seven candidate, so by all means, do your civic duty there too  
• Or I guess, y'all could lynch me to shut me up and then figure out D2 for yourselves.]

Edited November 13, 2019 by Kasimir

[Elbereth she/her]

As a reminder, the cycle will end in one hour. 

[Young Bard he/him]

52 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

As a reminder, the cycle will end in one hour. 

Oops, I thought I had an hour to make my vote when I only have ten minutes now. Ummm... Yikes.

Phellom/Bard, Stink. I don't have any reason to be suspicious of Stink, and how Stink flips will give me info on Kas and Wibble, who I've been trying to figure out. If Stink is good, I'd certainly feel more comfortable in guessing Kas is good too.

[Kasimir he/him]

[OOC: Elberond.]

[Elbereth she/her]

The cycle is closed! Cycle 2 will be up in one hour.