Long Game 78: The Legend of Zelda: The False Heroes

[---]

3 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Kick it.

Wh-

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Oh, wait, you can't, since it's on your legs.

My bad.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Color Key

• Village Read
• Slight Village Read
• Very Slight Village Read
• Neutral / No Read
• Very Slight Elim Read
• Slight Elim Read
• Elim Read

Reads List

1. Matrim's Dice: The bit Illwei said about putting in the work to notice somebody's tone not sounding normal
2. Kasimir: Other than the frankly puzzling fact that they like durian I have no read on them at all 
3. The Unknown Order: Doing a weird thing with roleclaiming which I disagree with but tbh they seem pretty prone to just doing their own thing regardless of alignment
4. Ashbringer: Hasn't said anything I'd call alignment indicative, wants Beedle to be autonomous which I don't really get since Archer's plan doesn't really encroach on Beedle's autonomy any but le shrug... I otherwise like their analysis of Plan Frog
5. Azmine_king
6. Archer: Someone gave me a PM with Archer which is cool!  Very hesitant village read based on the contents.
7. Dannex
8. Szeth_Pancakes
9. Steeldancer: A pointed out a post from them, idk stuff like reiterating village wincons feels a little sus to me
10. Araris Valerian: Seems to be doing Araris things as usual, by which I mean they are inscrutable
11. hyliara
12. |TJ|: Their vibe definitely feels different but im not really sure how yet, so
13. Devotary of Spontaneity
14. _Stick_: following their response to my vote... If the thing I noticed was really an instance of TMI, or even a "right for the wrong reasons" kinda scenario, I woulda expected a bigger response... Probably.
15. Illwei: First Zelda claim is slightly sorta good, I def thought about claiming Zelda at some point to bait out the strongman kill, although doing it in copypasta form kinda detracts from the whole effect 
16. Jondesu
17. Alvron
18. DrakeMarshall: Y'alls got to analyze me yourself I won't do it for you 
19. The Young Pyromancer: Everything they've been saying kinda suggests that they are pretty engaged with the game, but I'm not seeing a lot of thread activity and I kinda doubt Pyro has a bunch of PMs, which kinda says "doc activity" to me but idk
20. Random Bystander: Catching up as of a few hours ago, hopefully they show up again soon
21. WhiffleWaffles
22. attic_gremlin
23. YeetAroundABush: neutral read, please vote though!! None of us have any idea who to vote for either but we're still doing it 
24. purplewhiteandgold
25. Tani: As erroneous and obviously misplaced as their vote is, idk I feel like an elim would be a wee bit less likely to just vote bc somebody else asked for it?
26. quillinthestar

I'm a little concerned by the amount of grey names who just haven't said much and probably hides more than a few elims

But if LG77 is any indication that's probably not a great basis to decide upon a D1 exe

So hm

I have a problem

My problem is that I don't really want to exe either of the people I'm sus of 

It's been a while since I've seen either of them and I want to play a game with them

...but I refuse to vote on somebody I'm not even sus of...

y'all are putting me in a difficult position, you know? 

Um ok Pyro @The Young Pyromancer im sorry but the gods of RNG hath chosen you, unless you can give me a good reason to vote for someone else. I may live to regret asking this but who do you think I should vote for? 

Edit: Also I like the tvtropes reference

Edited June 23, 2021 by DrakeMarshall

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

15 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

m ok Pyro @The Young Pyromancer im sorry but the gods of RNG hath chosen you, unless you can give me a good reason to vote for someone else. I may live to regret asking this but who do you think I should vote for? 

Idk. I got to go soon, will do something later.

Also, I am a very slow RP writer. So you're technically right about the doc bit. Kudos, I guess.

[danex he/him]

Seems to me like nobody really knows who to vote for

we could just vote for nobody

wait, gotta double check if there’s any vote manip

but if there isn’t, voting for nobody would probably work, since if an elim tried to vote last second for an easy misexe they’d be outed. 
 

Edit: yeah the only vote manip is removing a vote, so this would totally work

Edit2: @StrikerEZ, @Biplet, what’s the current VC?

Edited June 24, 2021 by Dannex

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

3 minutes ago, Dannex said:

Seems to me like nobody really knows who to vote for

we could just vote for nobody

wait, gotta double check if there’s any vote manip

but if there isn’t, voting for nobody would probably work, since if an elim tried to vote last second for an easy misexe they’d be outed. 
 

Edit: yeah the only vote manip is removing a vote, so this would totally work

it would not work though bc it requires everyone to agree with it

and im very sorry but I don't

5 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Idk. I got to go soon, will do something later.

Also, I am a very slow RP writer. So you're technically right about the doc bit. Kudos, I guess.

Hmmmm

That's... A surprisingly good explanation

It doesn't really mean you can't also be spending time in an elim doc though hm

@Steeldancer what do you think?

[Ashbringer he/him]

33 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Ashbringer: Hasn't said anything I'd call alignment indicative, wants Beedle to be autonomous which I don't really get since Archer's plan doesn't really encroach on Beedle's autonomy any but le shrug... I otherwise like their analysis of Plan Frog

Beetle’s Autonomy isn’t affected by Archer’s plan on Hot Footed Frog (although player autonomy is, but that’s another story and in my mind a lesser issue because, well, alignment scan).

Archer’s plan on “if something goes wrong, deny my item request” does, because it ties an objective plan between Beedle and Zelda to specifically Archer’s item request. If Archer requests a durian, for example, then Beedle has to decide whether to fill the request as a Y/N for “did Plan Frog work” OR “I want a durian”, and may feel obligated to give it to Archer for the sake of the message as opposed to who Beedle thinks deserves it.

Essentially I don’t want Beedle being forced to give out items, as a message system or otherwise. Requests as messages are fine (ish), but the filling of requests should stay up to Beedle. That’s their role.

[Steeldancer he/him]

3 hours ago, Archer said:

I don't trust you. You dwarves lie a lot. :P. 

Araris, why are you arbitrarily limiting yourself to people other people have voted on? Eventually consolidation must occur to prevent the elims leading the exe, but this seems like a way to provide 'reasons' that aren't suspicions. 

Kas and Pyro continue to be very ominous, very scary 

@ village beedle if the frog plan goes wrong in any way, kindly signal that by refusing my item request tonight. Thank ye

I'm getting the sense that my poke on purplewhiteandgold isn't doing anything, so I'll see what targeting Steeldancer does. The way they backed off Illwei but didn't move their vote seemed contradictory. I like their new pfp though! 

Steeldancer

Thank you! My brother redesigned it for me. (A little background. A Steeldancer is a Steel compounding edgedancer, the fastest magical combination currently available in the cosmere. So my new symbol is the edgedancer symbol decorated with feruchemical steel symbols, and little lightning bolts at the top. I also got a shirt with it on it, and I love it)

As for your vote on me... Linebeck heard someone shouting at him. They wanted his pot! NEVER WOULD HE GIVE HIS POT UP! He brandished the pot as a weapon in defense of his life! 

Now that I'm back, I'm going to flex my old, old analysis muscles and get some reads. I'll vote after I do that. 

I don't usually like editing in votes, but nobody is posting, so I'll just say my thoughts. I read through the entire thread and in terms of analysis, well I took some notes on the kind of things people said. My main problem here, is I don't really know anyone's playstyle, so I can't judge on that. Even the old people I used to play with seem to have fairly different playstyles from what I remember, so I'm not counting that either. 

So that leaves my favorite thing! My GUT! My gut has 3 things to say.
I'm 90% sure Matrim is villager. I'd like a PM with them please. 

Illwei is confusing. But I already said that.

And my gut started taking offense to Kasimir. I don't really have a concrete reason for this vote that I can point out, but well... my gut said so. So I'll trust it for now. It's been wrong many times in the past, but who knows, maybe it got more accurate with all the eating I've done. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Steeldancer
fixed italics, added thoughts and vote, and bolded. And formatting, it was hard to read!

[Mat he/him]

25 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

I'm 90% sure Matrim is villager. I'd like a PM with them please. 

^^^

I almost want to follow you on sussing Kas but I’ve discovered I can’t read chill!Kas and I village read Kas always anyway (I have the same problem with Illwei, actually) so I’ll stay on Araris. Edit: probably also should mention that I wouldn’t be blindly following you for the sake of it; it’d be an inkling if I agree with the gut read, but that is a very very small inkling for now so not acting on it.

Dont like the Pyro train or the Steel train but I also don’t remember if either of those are actual trains.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Matrim's Dice

[Archer he/him]

2 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

Hey! Listen! I put full responsibility for this one you. And I'm going to switch from Azmine to TJ. I'm as confident as I've even been D1 that TUO is village, and I find it suspicious that anyone would stick to a vote on him for this long. 

That's a strong read. I can understand your angle, based on TUO's history, but TUO has been dodgy enough this game that I'm doubting that line of thought. They're more neutral to me, so thinking they're strong village seems odd. 

2 hours ago, Illwei said:

 Tbqh I havent seen anything really that really stick out to me about you yet. I'm also convinced that Im going to read you wrong and Im just going to...work with associative reads with you...because that worked out well last time... :P. 

They've been using RNG interestingly so far. That triggered my :hmm:

2 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Hmm please don’t kill Steeldancer.

Why not? They deflected my... Oh nevermind they promised analysis. I'll reconsider my vote tomorrow morning. I'm still curious why YOU don't want them to die though

1 hour ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Kick it.

The ominousness continues

1 hour ago, DrakeMarshall said:

1. Archer: Someone gave me a PM with Archer which is cool!  Very hesitant village read based on the contents.

This gives me the opportunity to mention that the person whoever made our PM did so before Drake got on the Shard and saw their alignment. I feel like an elim postman would have waited for fellow elim!Drake to get on to check with them before making the PM. So I don't think they're e-e. 

We're also a good combo, having worked together late in the last LG, which I think is why we were paired up. It's an unselfish, well picked choice, so it feels like a village postman playing support. If they ever claim, I strongly suspect they're village aligned. 

44 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Beetle’s Autonomy isn’t affected by Archer’s plan on Hot Footed Frog (although player autonomy is, but that’s another story and in my mind a lesser issue because, well, alignment scan).

Archer’s plan on “if something goes wrong, deny my item request” does, because it ties an objective plan between Beedle and Zelda to specifically Archer’s item request. If Archer requests a durian, for example, then Beedle has to decide whether to fill the request as a Y/N for “did Plan Frog work” OR “I want a durian”, and may feel obligated to give it to Archer for the sake of the message as opposed to who Beedle thinks deserves it.

Essentially I don’t want Beedle being forced to give out items, as a message system or otherwise. Requests as messages are fine (ish), but the filling of requests should stay up to Beedle. That’s their role.

So here's my conundrum. Either this is an elim who is worried about the benefits of the plan, or you're a villager offering good faith concerns. And it's very hard to tell the difference. 

If Beedle denies my request, even if Zelda went through with the plan, I'll be misinformed, but the main goal will have been accomplished all the same. I doubt Beedle will be handing out durians tonight anyway. They might take one for themselves, but it's a big power to hand out early in the game. Regardless, I don't plan on asking for one. I'm trying to walk the line between pushing a logical plan (yay) and mayoring (which is bad), and requesting a lower value item is one of the compromises I'll be making to ensure everyone has an enjoyable amount of agency. That's why I'm not seriously suggesting the mass role claim Phase Two, even though it'd be effective, in my opinion. 

Zelda too has free choice; if they don't want to participate, they can just not ask for a Frog. It's more likely that they will, and that should be enough to deter elims from impersonating them. 

And if anyone was dying to get a Frog, all we're doing is delaying you by a cycle. It's a pretty low impact play for a lot of benefit. At this point, everyone should know about it, so there shouldn't be any confusion. 

[danex he/him]

1 hour ago, DrakeMarshall said:

and im very sorry but I don't

1 hour ago, DrakeMarshall said:

My problem is that I don't really want to exe either of the people I'm sus of 

1 hour ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Um ok Pyro @The Young Pyromancer im sorry but the gods of RNG hath chosen you

:hmmmmmmmmmmm:

so you suddenly gained a ton of confindence in your vote based on…*checks notes* complete rng?

interesting

very interesting

[Jondesu he/him]

Woah, that’s a lot of posts I need to catch up on. I’ll…uh, do that, and get back to ya’ll. I do exist, though. Currently trying to figure out all the talk about Beedle and Zelda and that from the first page.

[Mat he/him]

4 minutes ago, Archer said:

Why not? They deflected my... Oh nevermind they promised analysis. I'll reconsider my vote tomorrow morning. I'm still curious why YOU don't want them to die though

Because 1. They’re returning 2. I village read them 3. I don’t think the reasoning against them is any better than the reasoning I have to village read them

5 minutes ago, Archer said:

We're also a good combo, having worked together late in the last LG, which I think is why we were paired up. It's an unselfish, well picked choice, so it feels like a village postman playing support. If they ever claim, I strongly suspect they're village aligned. 

I’ll laugh if it’s you  

6 minutes ago, Archer said:

So here's my conundrum. Either this is an elim who is worried about the benefits of the plan, or you're a villager offering good faith concerns. And it's very hard to tell the difference. 

ReadingAshVillage!me saying that I think it’s the latter and that an elim probably wouldn’t call it out that hard because of the also possible benefits to their side. Imo Ash’s vocalism against this is a point in their favor as much as your vocalism for it is a point in yours.

8 minutes ago, Archer said:

Zelda too has free choice

This is the bit that makes me want to say abandon ship! on this plan because there’s too much that could go wrong and we’d never know. But whatever is decided should be crystal clear by the end of the cycle, preferably a bit before.

@Alvron anything more from you?

[Steeldancer he/him]

9 minutes ago, Archer said:

Why not? They deflected my... Oh nevermind they promised analysis. I'll reconsider my vote tomorrow morning. I'm still curious why YOU don't want them to die though

I'm sorry, my analysis turned into personal notes and some gut reads. Also, I am a he/him, so feel free to use that. I also voted, as promised. I just edited in. 

[Kasimir he/him]

40 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

And my gut started taking offense to Kasimir. I don't really have a concrete reason for this vote that I can point out, but well... my gut said so. So I'll trust it for now. It's been wrong many times in the past, but who knows, maybe it got more accurate with all the eating I've done. 

I shall treasure this always  Good to be playing with you again since the plant madness game.

16 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I almost want to follow you on sussing Kas but I’ve discovered I can’t read chill!Kas and I village read Kas always anyway

Says the guy who always gets into cage shuffle squats with me, how sus 

[Quivil she/her]

3 hours ago, Archer said:

I don't trust you. You dwarves lie a lot. :P. 

*smile* (I forgot I said that until you reminded me, actually. So it was really funny and fun. Thank you.)

3 hours ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

When he got to his post, Earl had the feeling he was being watched. He didn’t know why - but this did more than just unnerve him. He was flung into full panic mode, and spun around to see what it was. When there was nothing conspicuous behind him, his eyes latched on to a crack in the wall, and saw another one of those little bugs inside. He jammed two of his fingers into the crack, but they didn’t quite reach the bug. Why couldn’t he—

Earl realized what he was doing and spun back around. There was something very, very wrong here.

Earl turned and noticed Keila watching him with a concerned look on his face “What… are you doing?” 

Earl felt himself blushing slightly. “There… was a bug.”

“Ok…” Keila scratched his head.

Earl went back to standing straight and watching people bustle in and out of the inner gate, as was his job. However, the feeling didn’t go away…

Reva wondered. *How does he know what I am? How does he know I'm different? And why didn't he just reform his fingers, if he wanted to squish one more of me so badly??*

She decided to experiment.

2 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

Faleast strode forward. Someone had pointed out he'd changed shape... which, he'd been careful about. Not many people could sneak up on him, but this was a new place with new rules. He'd still have to figure them out. But in the meantime...

"Navi, please," he said smoothly. "These identities are new for all of us, and I simply felt I needed to make some... adjustments to how I appeared. Blonde hair doesn't suit me so well, evidently, and the nose..." he adjusted a fake nose, before re-sealing it to his face. "Well, I wanted to look my best despite the circumstances."

He was proud of this, if AraRaash had his doubts. Thick black hair that drifted in an odd way, covering the back of his head, theoretically covering the various oddities that the races of Hyrule had. Over his eyes was a white mask, then the false nose, and face painted with an off-white color. They'd be able to tell he wasn't a Rito - he wasn't sure how that bird was trying to hide himself - but hopefully the rest was sufficiently ambiguous.

Of course, he stood out like a Moblin on Hyrule Field. But this time, that was the point. He stood out, people looking at the obvious disguises. Hopefully they would keep trying to pierce that... maybe they would succeed. But he doubted they would be able to pierce beneath that.

Then again... there seemed to be many people with those skills.

There were other kandra about in Hyrule. How, he had no idea. But he intended to find out.

In another corner of the realm: That's a kandra. Definitely and absolutely. It changed shape, and Reva saw it. Reva could see a lot of things when she wanted to. It was wearing a dusguise. Reva guessed that the disguise was to cover it's disguise. After all, it wasn't in it's own bones.

2 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

I am of the opinion that role-claiming is bad, unless in VERY specific circumstances. Mainly if you're going to get executed and are a role that the Village really does not want executed (Zelda/Link/Beedle... could make arguments for others I suppose. Depends if roles like Mipha are unique or not, which we're not going to learn). 

Again, [1 I do not like this frog plan. At all.] [2 There are many players as Elims who would try and grab a frog to disrupt the plan and confuse Beedle. There are also many (not as many, but Araris, for instance) players who would likely, being Zelda, refuse to participate.] If these two happen to coincide, then we have Beedle, who most of us agree is likely Village, convinced that an Elim is our confirmed Village alignment scanner. That is incredibly bad. [3 And I'm pretty sure Striker and Bip could have pulled an E!Beedle, depending on who the player is they could either be subtle about it or supercharge the Elims, in which case the Elims have been rooting for this plan from the start.]

1. Frog plan comment: I actually requested a frog, not knowing about the plan or what frogs did, but only because it sounded like it would be fun to have a frog. (because it woulda been fun to have an actual frog when I RPd eating a live frog.)

2. Truthens. Many much truthens.

3. I sure hope not. That would be the worst. And it'd probably be pretty easy to supercharge the Elims and be subtle about it. Just [text redacted by Tani's evil twin], and there you go. Suped up elims and unaware villagers.

2 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

Also, I just want to note the oddity of PMs this game. It's not open PMs, so if Beedle does find Zelda or Zelda finds a bunch of villagers, it's not a guarantee that they'll be able to communicate. But at the same time, each Postman can open one PM each turn and they last until the Postman dies, which would probably be a while, and we seem to have a few going around already.

There's only been a day turn. How can there be more than one PM?

2 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

Slight Elim:

• TUO (not for the inactivity as usual, but for claiming full vanilla. I don't know if I believe that, this being a Striker game, but we will see. Also saying he'll play info-free and then jokingly trying to vote on the three who claimed Zelda.) 

Ummmm...? This isn't role madness... there are vanillas. By someone's math way back at the start, there are about fifteen vanillas: four elim, eleven village.

Ok I'm finished with all my responses to stuff for the moment.

Reva formed a body, leaving it as empty as she could manage. Her hordelings were latticed with black lines, fitting together to make intricate tattoos covering her whole body. She also wore clothes as concealing as she could get away with.

Reva exited the closet she was inhabiting and headed for the inner gate.

Drake because it's getting close to the end of my day and I don't want to miss rollover with a vote still on someone I have no kind of elim read on.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

5 minutes ago, Dannex said:

:hmmmmmmmmmmm:

so you suddenly gained a ton of confindence in your vote based on…*checks notes* complete rng?

interesting

very interesting

Confidence? Not even slightly 

Intention to go through with it anyway? Absolutely.

I like voting. What exactly else is there to even do?

[Quivil she/her]

Just now, DrakeMarshall said:

Confidence? Not even slightly 

Intention to go through with it anyway? Absolutely.

I like voting. What exactly else is there to even do?

... Not vote?

[Mat he/him]

3 minutes ago, Tani said:

I actually requested a frog

Throughout the game

there is one thing I’ve repeated

:P.

4 minutes ago, Tani said:

There's only been a day turn. How can there be more than one PM?

Multiple Postmen.

[Quivil she/her]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

Throughout the game

there is one thing I’ve repeated

:P.

And I didn't know about the frog plan and skipped the first four pages.

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

Multiple Postmen.

Ah. Thanks!

 

Oh, for a Gears, to summarize all the posts for us...

Maybe I'll start doing that... (if I can.)

[danex he/him]

Just now, DrakeMarshall said:

What exactly else is there to even do?

Not vote. Or at least not vote on RNG. We’ve had horrendous outcomes from D1 RNG Exes recently. And none have ever been fruitful. At all. 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

6 minutes ago, Tani said:

... Not vote?

Edit:

Just now, Dannex said:

Not vote. Or at least not vote on RNG. We’ve had horrendous outcomes from D1 RNG Exes recently. And none have ever been fruitful. At all. 

Would you mind referring me to one of those games?

The thing about RNG, is that it also sometimes it works  I used it to decide between two people I am already sus of, I figure either has about equal odds of being evil, so idk what the problem is with using RNG. My arbitrary decision wouldn't really be any better than RNG, and I really do think both of them are sus.

Edited June 24, 2021 by DrakeMarshall

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Multiple Postmen.

Ftfy.

Spoiler

Edit: Spoilering Drake's quote for the sake of anyone on data:

Spoiler

1 minute ago, DrakeMarshall said:

I like you already, Ezlo. I do not regret this subscribe. But you are still on my naughty list.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Kasimir

[Ashbringer he/him]

7 minutes ago, Tani said:

 

Quote

Slight Elim:

• TUO (not for the inactivity as usual, but for claiming full vanilla. I don't know if I believe that, this being a Striker game, but we will see. Also saying he'll play info-free and then jokingly trying to vote on the three who claimed Zelda.) 

Ummmm...? This isn't role madness... there are vanillas. By someone's math way back at the start, there are about fifteen vanillas: four elim, eleven village.

I’m not really big on guessing how many vanillas there are. Guessing role distribution has (almost) never gone well from what I remember. But I know Striker likes his role madnesses, and from what I remember from the rules the non-Link, non-Zelda Named Roles aren’t guarunteed to be unique. So I want to wait and see on vanillas.

I’m not going to vote TUO for it, yet, but it’s marked.

[Quivil she/her]

Just now, Ashbringer said:

So I want to wait and see on vanillas.

How much waiting and seeing will this take?